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	<title>Comments on: Christian faith and civil disobedience: compatible?</title>
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	<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/</link>
	<description>o j a m a - s h i m a s u</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: journeyman</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3544</link>
		<dc:creator>journeyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 03:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3544</guid>
		<description>Simon when is enough is enough? Answer is never unless you are contentedto have a standard of living equal to or less than your parents!

We live in Moore's expectation - doubling performance and halfing cost every 18 months.

What was great yesterday, is barely adequate today and certainly not enough for tomorrow.

Can Governments ever moderate this expectation - almost impossible when we instutionalize meritocracy and marking to global market prices for "talent." 

Hence we are what we envisoned except we were not wise enough to forsee theunitended consequences of limited human mind without the inspiration of the Divine.

Altruism is a irrational factor in the contemproary risk analysis of evolving situations, hence the limited appeal of all our decisions - some fraction will always be pissed - question if it is a permanent group or a dynamic cluster of the populace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon when is enough is enough? Answer is never unless you are contentedto have a standard of living equal to or less than your parents!</p>
<p>We live in Moore&#8217;s expectation - doubling performance and halfing cost every 18 months.</p>
<p>What was great yesterday, is barely adequate today and certainly not enough for tomorrow.</p>
<p>Can Governments ever moderate this expectation - almost impossible when we instutionalize meritocracy and marking to global market prices for &#8220;talent.&#8221; </p>
<p>Hence we are what we envisoned except we were not wise enough to forsee theunitended consequences of limited human mind without the inspiration of the Divine.</p>
<p>Altruism is a irrational factor in the contemproary risk analysis of evolving situations, hence the limited appeal of all our decisions - some fraction will always be pissed - question if it is a permanent group or a dynamic cluster of the populace.</p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3543</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3543</guid>
		<description>Well, I agree with you. But I wonder whether do we have an universal yardstick to say that the govt is doing enough and not enough? And again, whose yard stick should we be using?

Instead of waiting for the govt or others to do more, it can always start with us. Just like what you are doing in your cell group. From one person, you influences many more...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I agree with you. But I wonder whether do we have an universal yardstick to say that the govt is doing enough and not enough? And again, whose yard stick should we be using?</p>
<p>Instead of waiting for the govt or others to do more, it can always start with us. Just like what you are doing in your cell group. From one person, you influences many more&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3542</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3542</guid>
		<description>Ha..ha...it looks like we are fighting to have the last say on this matter but I will rest my case after this reply.

If I am a salesman and I find entertaining a client is offensive or against my belief, I could always choose to become an administrator. Or, I can choose to work for another company. Actally, even before deciding to become a salesman, I should already take all these factors into consideration and there should not be any suprises to me at all.

Is a doctor any different from the salesman listed above? There are actually many other medical fields that a doctor can choose from....it is really up to the person to decide what he wanted to do with his life. Isn't this what freedom is all about? With freedom comes responsibility and consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha..ha&#8230;it looks like we are fighting to have the last say on this matter but I will rest my case after this reply.</p>
<p>If I am a salesman and I find entertaining a client is offensive or against my belief, I could always choose to become an administrator. Or, I can choose to work for another company. Actally, even before deciding to become a salesman, I should already take all these factors into consideration and there should not be any suprises to me at all.</p>
<p>Is a doctor any different from the salesman listed above? There are actually many other medical fields that a doctor can choose from&#8230;.it is really up to the person to decide what he wanted to do with his life. Isn&#8217;t this what freedom is all about? With freedom comes responsibility and consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Bolivian Beat</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3541</link>
		<dc:creator>Bolivian Beat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3541</guid>
		<description>Is there any freedom that I needed so badly that warrants a “civil disobendience” in God’s name?

Do doctors have the freedom to not perform abortions on demand? Will they lose their jobs if they dont? Will they lose their prospects for promotion and advancement? If doctors dont have a right to choose then they don't have the freedom to choose. if the answers to all these questions is, YES.  then I guess they'll just have to emigrate. 

Do foreign workers  have the freedom to question the conditions of their services? If they dont...then thats ok they can go to another country and work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any freedom that I needed so badly that warrants a “civil disobendience” in God’s name?</p>
<p>Do doctors have the freedom to not perform abortions on demand? Will they lose their jobs if they dont? Will they lose their prospects for promotion and advancement? If doctors dont have a right to choose then they don&#8217;t have the freedom to choose. if the answers to all these questions is, YES.  then I guess they&#8217;ll just have to emigrate. </p>
<p>Do foreign workers  have the freedom to question the conditions of their services? If they dont&#8230;then thats ok they can go to another country and work.</p>
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		<title>By: journeyman</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3540</link>
		<dc:creator>journeyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3540</guid>
		<description>Simon an Interesting story.

Do we always have to percieve that Donkeys are always to be exploited as beast of burden, can we ever accept them as partners or better still as companions ?

Yes, ultimately it will be a personal conviction and choice. We should always respect the choice of others unless it impacts on our own choice, then we have to weigh the risk of removing the irritant or accepting and moving on.

The reason our standard of living will keep going up is because we have love, hope and grace. This allows us to take risk and recover if things do not pan out - this is called resilience. If we accept there is just only one way or the highway, then we have to accpet that eventually we will have a "hotel" situation.

If we want to enjoy beauty of butterflies, then we need to nuture the catapillars. Maybe we should should just import sterile (incapable of reproduction) adult butterflies fresh everyday - but can we achieve the same result and satisfaction?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon an Interesting story.</p>
<p>Do we always have to percieve that Donkeys are always to be exploited as beast of burden, can we ever accept them as partners or better still as companions ?</p>
<p>Yes, ultimately it will be a personal conviction and choice. We should always respect the choice of others unless it impacts on our own choice, then we have to weigh the risk of removing the irritant or accepting and moving on.</p>
<p>The reason our standard of living will keep going up is because we have love, hope and grace. This allows us to take risk and recover if things do not pan out - this is called resilience. If we accept there is just only one way or the highway, then we have to accpet that eventually we will have a &#8220;hotel&#8221; situation.</p>
<p>If we want to enjoy beauty of butterflies, then we need to nuture the catapillars. Maybe we should should just import sterile (incapable of reproduction) adult butterflies fresh everyday - but can we achieve the same result and satisfaction?</p>
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		<title>By: blogpastor</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3537</link>
		<dc:creator>blogpastor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3537</guid>
		<description>Yes Simon, few emigrate for more politcal freedom. Most people leave for what they believe to be a higher quality of life: in education,  better lifestyle and retirement.

I believe the government needs to be more gracious and  compassionate towards the poor, and more just in biblical terms. Israel received some very strong words even during their prosperous and peaceful periods in history.

Righteousness, which in biblical terms include justice and mercy, and helping the poor and powerless, will exalt a nation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Simon, few emigrate for more politcal freedom. Most people leave for what they believe to be a higher quality of life: in education,  better lifestyle and retirement.</p>
<p>I believe the government needs to be more gracious and  compassionate towards the poor, and more just in biblical terms. Israel received some very strong words even during their prosperous and peaceful periods in history.</p>
<p>Righteousness, which in biblical terms include justice and mercy, and helping the poor and powerless, will exalt a nation.</p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3536</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3536</guid>
		<description>Dear JMan,

What you have written, reminded me of this story. There was once a man who went into a city with his son and a donkey. At first, the boy rides on the donkey and the man walks next to it. Along the way, they met a women and she told the boy that he is not being filial for making his dad walks while he rides on the donkey. 

They listened to the women's advice and switched places - the man now rides on the donkey and the boy walks next to it. Along the way, they met a man and he said: "It is so cruel of you to make your young boy walks while you sat on the donkey"

Soon after, father and son decided to sit on the donkey. This time, they met a old lady and she said: "It is so cruel that the two of you are riding on the donkey..you are torturing the poor creature..tsk..tsk". 

Finally, father and son decided to walk and they even bought a cart for the donkey to push it into the city.

As a Singaporean, I ask myself..am I really missing out on some freedom?
Is there any freedom that I needed so badly that warrants a "civil disobendience" in God's name? 

My friends can tell me to change my wall colors and the position of my furnitures and I believe, they did it with good intentions. But ultimately, I have to decide what is best for myself.

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear JMan,</p>
<p>What you have written, reminded me of this story. There was once a man who went into a city with his son and a donkey. At first, the boy rides on the donkey and the man walks next to it. Along the way, they met a women and she told the boy that he is not being filial for making his dad walks while he rides on the donkey. </p>
<p>They listened to the women&#8217;s advice and switched places - the man now rides on the donkey and the boy walks next to it. Along the way, they met a man and he said: &#8220;It is so cruel of you to make your young boy walks while you sat on the donkey&#8221;</p>
<p>Soon after, father and son decided to sit on the donkey. This time, they met a old lady and she said: &#8220;It is so cruel that the two of you are riding on the donkey..you are torturing the poor creature..tsk..tsk&#8221;. </p>
<p>Finally, father and son decided to walk and they even bought a cart for the donkey to push it into the city.</p>
<p>As a Singaporean, I ask myself..am I really missing out on some freedom?<br />
Is there any freedom that I needed so badly that warrants a &#8220;civil disobendience&#8221; in God&#8217;s name? </p>
<p>My friends can tell me to change my wall colors and the position of my furnitures and I believe, they did it with good intentions. But ultimately, I have to decide what is best for myself.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Bolivian Beat</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3534</link>
		<dc:creator>Bolivian Beat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3534</guid>
		<description>In the Lord's prayer we are asked to pray "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven". This plea from the Lord's prayer speaks about the kingdom coming to earth and not within a particular denomination. The Biblical idea of the kingdom embraces the whole earth and the universe. And thats why the great commission is directed not to individuals but to the nations. And the final vision in Rev 7 of man's redemption include ethnic groups and multi ethnic socio-political entities. Kingdom values and principles were meant to be practically applied in the social sphere. If the politics of a christian parliamentarian is devoid of any christian influence then something has gone awry. If this is idealism, then we plead guilty! We are living off the gains of some very brave idealists who build their social responsibilities on the Biblical revelation. The whole idea of common justice and human dignity, the basis of so many of our laws, is rooted in the biblical judeo-christian world view. 

 The sort of individual salvation many christians are used to is a very limited view of salvation.   This is one reason why our social values as christians in the marketplace is always influenced by our Christian beliefs. 

This is why we dont simply get spiritual in church and sort of agnostic when it comes to politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Lord&#8217;s prayer we are asked to pray &#8220;Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven&#8221;. This plea from the Lord&#8217;s prayer speaks about the kingdom coming to earth and not within a particular denomination. The Biblical idea of the kingdom embraces the whole earth and the universe. And thats why the great commission is directed not to individuals but to the nations. And the final vision in Rev 7 of man&#8217;s redemption include ethnic groups and multi ethnic socio-political entities. Kingdom values and principles were meant to be practically applied in the social sphere. If the politics of a christian parliamentarian is devoid of any christian influence then something has gone awry. If this is idealism, then we plead guilty! We are living off the gains of some very brave idealists who build their social responsibilities on the Biblical revelation. The whole idea of common justice and human dignity, the basis of so many of our laws, is rooted in the biblical judeo-christian world view. </p>
<p> The sort of individual salvation many christians are used to is a very limited view of salvation.   This is one reason why our social values as christians in the marketplace is always influenced by our Christian beliefs. </p>
<p>This is why we dont simply get spiritual in church and sort of agnostic when it comes to politics.</p>
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		<title>By: journeyman</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3528</link>
		<dc:creator>journeyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3528</guid>
		<description>Good on you Simon that you are happy and contented.....
For some, the journey is God's perfection - grace and love, can we ever have heavan on Earth?i

Interesting and balanced perspective........explains some of our acceptance and ambivalence towards dynamic politcal situations....


Singapore
The new authoritarianism
More and more of us are willing to trade freedom for wealth or security. John Kampfner
The Guardian
Jul 3, 2008

Why is it that a growing number of highly educated and well-travelled people are willing to hand over several of their freedoms in return for prosperity or security? 

This question has been exercising me for months as I work on a book about what I call the "pact".

The model for this is Singapore, where repression is highly selective. 

It is confined to those who take a conscious decision openly to challenge the authorities. 

If you do not, you enjoy freedom to travel, to live more or less as you wish, and – perhaps most important – to make money. Under Lee Kuan Yew, this city-state built on a swamp has flourished economically.

I was born in Singapore and have over the years been fascinated by my Chinese Singaporean friends. Doctors, financiers and lawyers, they have studied in London, Oxford, Harvard and Sydney. 

They have travelled across all continents; they are well versed in international politics, but are perfectly content with the situation back home. 

I used to reassure myself with the old certainty that this model was not applicable to larger, more diverse states. I now believe this to be incorrect.

Provincial governments in China send their brightest officials to Singapore to learn the secrets of its "success". For Russian politicians it too provides a useful model. 

These countries, and others in Asia and the Middle East are proving that the free markets does not require a free society in which to thrive, and that in any battle between politics and economics, it is the latter that will win out. 

It is too easy to believe that this debate does not apply to us. Across western Europe, the US and in other so-called democracies, liberty is similarly losing out to both the post-9/11 security agenda and the power of global finance. 

Different countries hand over different freedoms; in Italy, Silvio Berlusconi (who makes no secret of his admiration for Vladimir Putin), brazenly attacks the judiciary, having effectively censored the broadcast media. 

In Britain, we draw comfort from what we believe to be a robust public realm, with strong freedom of speech (although our journalists are far better at shouting than at digging out information). 

And yet, as David Davis so theatrically has reminded us, we are sleepwalking into a level of state surveillance that will not be reversed.

Many countries, including our own, are entering into new pacts with their rulers. 

Resurgent autocrats draw strength from the many weaknesses of western leaderships, not just their mistakes in foreign policy, but their failure to rejuvenate their own political systems, or to deal with a business culture that had lost touch with the needs of society. 

It was Oswald Spengler who at the turn of the last century predicted that "the masses will accept with resignation the victory of the Caesars, the strong men, and will obey them". 

A modern form of authoritarianism, quite distinct from Soviet Communism, Maoism or Fascism, is being born. It is providing a modicum of a good life, and a quiet life, the ultimate anaesthetic for the brain.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/01/civilliberties</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good on you Simon that you are happy and contented&#8230;..<br />
For some, the journey is God&#8217;s perfection - grace and love, can we ever have heavan on Earth?i</p>
<p>Interesting and balanced perspective&#8230;&#8230;..explains some of our acceptance and ambivalence towards dynamic politcal situations&#8230;.</p>
<p>Singapore<br />
The new authoritarianism<br />
More and more of us are willing to trade freedom for wealth or security. John Kampfner<br />
The Guardian<br />
Jul 3, 2008</p>
<p>Why is it that a growing number of highly educated and well-travelled people are willing to hand over several of their freedoms in return for prosperity or security? </p>
<p>This question has been exercising me for months as I work on a book about what I call the &#8220;pact&#8221;.</p>
<p>The model for this is Singapore, where repression is highly selective. </p>
<p>It is confined to those who take a conscious decision openly to challenge the authorities. </p>
<p>If you do not, you enjoy freedom to travel, to live more or less as you wish, and – perhaps most important – to make money. Under Lee Kuan Yew, this city-state built on a swamp has flourished economically.</p>
<p>I was born in Singapore and have over the years been fascinated by my Chinese Singaporean friends. Doctors, financiers and lawyers, they have studied in London, Oxford, Harvard and Sydney. </p>
<p>They have travelled across all continents; they are well versed in international politics, but are perfectly content with the situation back home. </p>
<p>I used to reassure myself with the old certainty that this model was not applicable to larger, more diverse states. I now believe this to be incorrect.</p>
<p>Provincial governments in China send their brightest officials to Singapore to learn the secrets of its &#8220;success&#8221;. For Russian politicians it too provides a useful model. </p>
<p>These countries, and others in Asia and the Middle East are proving that the free markets does not require a free society in which to thrive, and that in any battle between politics and economics, it is the latter that will win out. </p>
<p>It is too easy to believe that this debate does not apply to us. Across western Europe, the US and in other so-called democracies, liberty is similarly losing out to both the post-9/11 security agenda and the power of global finance. </p>
<p>Different countries hand over different freedoms; in Italy, Silvio Berlusconi (who makes no secret of his admiration for Vladimir Putin), brazenly attacks the judiciary, having effectively censored the broadcast media. </p>
<p>In Britain, we draw comfort from what we believe to be a robust public realm, with strong freedom of speech (although our journalists are far better at shouting than at digging out information). </p>
<p>And yet, as David Davis so theatrically has reminded us, we are sleepwalking into a level of state surveillance that will not be reversed.</p>
<p>Many countries, including our own, are entering into new pacts with their rulers. </p>
<p>Resurgent autocrats draw strength from the many weaknesses of western leaderships, not just their mistakes in foreign policy, but their failure to rejuvenate their own political systems, or to deal with a business culture that had lost touch with the needs of society. </p>
<p>It was Oswald Spengler who at the turn of the last century predicted that &#8220;the masses will accept with resignation the victory of the Caesars, the strong men, and will obey them&#8221;. </p>
<p>A modern form of authoritarianism, quite distinct from Soviet Communism, Maoism or Fascism, is being born. It is providing a modicum of a good life, and a quiet life, the ultimate anaesthetic for the brain.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/01/civilliberties" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/01/civilliberties</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ee Yuing</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpastor.net/2008/06/09/christian-faith-and-civil-disobedience-compatible/#comment-3527</link>
		<dc:creator>Ee Yuing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 01:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpastor.net/?p=755#comment-3527</guid>
		<description>Hi all,

Just like to inform you that this friday, 11 July, there is a public lecture titled "The Christian as Salt and Light in Politics" by Dr Toh See Kiat who is the chairman of Biblical Graduate School of Theology (BGST). It is held at Singapore Thomson Rd Baptist Church, Level 2, 7.30-9.30pm. Dr Toh was also a former Member of Parliament for Aljunied GRC and he presently worships at Mt Carmel BP Church where he is an elder. It might be an interesting lecture for those who can make it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Just like to inform you that this friday, 11 July, there is a public lecture titled &#8220;The Christian as Salt and Light in Politics&#8221; by Dr Toh See Kiat who is the chairman of Biblical Graduate School of Theology (BGST). It is held at Singapore Thomson Rd Baptist Church, Level 2, 7.30-9.30pm. Dr Toh was also a former Member of Parliament for Aljunied GRC and he presently worships at Mt Carmel BP Church where he is an elder. It might be an interesting lecture for those who can make it.</p>
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