Joseph Prince: made from the same cloth
October 6th, 2008
The New Creation Church board made a good decision when they permitted the Straits Times to do an 
interview with Pastor Joseph Prince. The interview was reported in last Sunday’s papers and was interesting. It has always been my conviction that the “holy man” is most influential when he is humble, open with his weaknesses, and vulnerable. I saw this in Lawrence Khong. And I saw some of it in this report. The flamboyant distant holy and handsome man Joseph Prince became more like one of us: accessible, real, and vulnerable. It gave you a feeling of identification, of empathy, of being made from the same cloth. We find we are able to relate to him.
“(JP)….is a shy man and a stutterer.”
“Joseph Prince says, “I’m still frightened. To me, I’m very humbled. Every week when I stand there for four services, once in a while, I still wonder to myself, people are queueing up, for what? This is not Hello Kitty, you know.
“Born to an Indian father and a Chinese mother, Mr Prince spent eight years - mostly during his primary school days - in Perak where his father was a priest. He doesn’t care to mention which religion his father belongs to because he found no reality in it, he said. His father was often drunk. He eventually came back to Singapore and followed an aunt to church. he was then a young man dabbling in occult, he said, but “supernatural experiences” opened his eyes to Christianity.
“He attended Commonwealth secondary School and went on to finish his A levels at a private school, Our Lady of Lourdes.
“Joseph Prince, by the way, was a name he adopted when he was working as an IT consultant before he became a full-time pastor. “I saw in the Bible that everyone that God raised, he changed their names,” he explained.
The awfully good-looking, charismatic, anointed preacher was a stammerer! He still retains a sense of wonder at what God is doing instead of feeling like they are queueing up because of his great preaching. He had a tough background, an absent and negligent father, and many of us can identify with that. He attended an ordinary non-elite school like the majority of us Singaporeans, and couldn’t even make it to a ‘proper’ junior college. Hear ye, hear ye, he is not a government scholar! Don’t we all love underdog make good by God’s grace stories; Chesterfield beat Man Utd, 6-0 stuff. And he adopted a new name to make a break with the painful past so that he can start anew, and we have all experienced that too. From what I read he is easy to relate to and anyone could feel at ease with him. I can have coffee with him and talk natural. I don’t have to speak in tongues every alternate sentence. I can laugh and even talk about some Korean serial, and not feel obliged to discuss about the fifth trumpet of the book of Revelation. He seems an okay kind of guy: spiritual, yet natural.
Entry Filed under: Church, Megachurches
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P Kenny.
I don’t like your example which is not recent. the example should be Arsenal 1 Hull city 2 at Emirates Stadium which very fresh on everybody’s mind. Ha ha..
haha. are you a man u fan? 1-2 is not as bad as 6-0 isn’t it? But well, yea, Arsenal deserves that.
Just for the record, he used to be known as Jiovinder Singh.
The name change was also in line with the change in religion.
You are right about Ps Prince being humble and down-to-earth. When he autographed my copy of D2R, he did not just sign it impersonally, but took the effort to write something that was most edifying and encouraging.
I have blogged about that here:
http://rootss.blogspot.com/2007/09/god-causes-great-happenings-to-happen.html
Yes it was not mentioned in the Straits Times. Thanks for the info, Malcolm.
Hi Malcolm,
Just curious - appreciate since you seem know the man quite well - is JP a legal name change by deed poll as in the IC and passport or a nome de plume?
This sunday, Pastor Prince shared a very good message about the first 4 seals in the book of revelation. We are truly witnessing the many key signs of end time.
When he started sharing, my heart was beating really fast because like many others, I am keen to know what will eventually be happening before tribulation. Going further, I wanted to know the ways or the steps to avoid the “famine” and the “sickenss”. But eventually, thanks to PPrince’s message, I rejoice because I know, there is nothing that I can do. There is nothing that I need to do. All these calamities that are coming our way…is truly beyond us. How can I stop the banks from collapsing? How can I stop viruses from spreading? But as Christians, we are protected in the house of God. The four faces of Christ are banners of love that will shield us from the 4 horseman that are coming our way.
Get a copy of PPrince CD this coming weekend and if possible, get the DVD later on…he uses a number of illustrations and this could only be seen from the DVD.
Cheers
Hi Kenny,
My previous monk master in Penang also very down to earth and natural. She is also very humble and even, together with her other nun-sisters, adopt orphans in her temple.
My point is a good person is a good person. A good person does not necessarily is or be a Christian. Yet a Christian necessarily be a good person.
Hence Prince can be humble, natural, and down to earth (just as my previous Buddhist master), but to equate that as being an exemplary Christian minister is altogether another thing, I deem.
So I agree that Prince is spiritual. Just as how my previous Buddhist master is.
Blessings.
Come on..give JP a break. No one is perfect…Humble also kana judge, proud also kana judge..Jia lat man. Very hard to be a Christian lei..
Hi Joshua,
Am very surprised by the negative way that you dismiss JP. Besides it wasn’t him who claims to be humble. It was Blogpastor’s comments. Then, for you to compare JP to your former Buddhist monkmaster… surely smacks of spiritual blindness
Remember it was the Lord Himself who said that it is what come out of a man that pollutes …that we will be judged by our words… flippant or sacarstic as it may be.
Wake up, brother.
Hi Joshua,
Kenny is not here comparing Ps Prince with your monk masters. Why are you so uptight? May the peace of God be with and work in you and in your heart. Being good, just as Ps Prince is, does not earn a place in heaven. Only the faithful and who truly believe in the true God will inherit a place in heaven. All the goodness of man cannot compare with the abounding grace of God.
I once gave an example that being very good won’t go to heaven, you first have to ask who owns the place. One day you were queing up in a long queue for a ticket to get into the cinema and a guy was just behind you doing the same thing. Then came the owner of the cinema and he saw the person behind you. They knew each other. The owner told him quit the queing and go right to the front and get a free ticket. You became frustrated and asked the attendant why you can’t do the same. You said you had been a good person lining up patiently in queue. The attendant asked, “Sorry, who are you?” Ignorant of the fact that you need to personally know the owner of the cinema, you kept insisting that you had been good and followed the rules, why couldn’t do the same like the other person. The attendant told you off and said, “You either continue to queue up or we will call the police”.
ha..ha…so true. Actually, most of the time, the source of these bitterness and judgmental heart begins with jealousy
i love his church’s music…kept my ‘head above water’ in very tough recent months…played this particular song, “I’m Held By Your Love”, over and over again.
Maybe Spurs and Ramos need to listen to it, too.
Hi blogpastor,
You can get all this from a newspaper interview? Wow
Hi Sumanited,
Give Prince a break? I will when he start giving himself a break from drilling nonsense into people’s head.
My comment built on the ‘fact’ of Prince’s humble-ness, not on ‘claims. Getting this right might help to see what I posted.
Hi tikesz,
Yes, what comes out from a man’s mouth pollutes. That same saying should be directed also to Prince. All the wrong teachings he has been polluting the world with. And he dare to claim that these are Christian teachings.
Hi 357,
At most time source of bitterness and judgmental hearts comes from jealousy? Aren’t you judging me by that? So could I say your source of judging me comes from jealousy?
I think it’s not stemmed from jealousy. Rather, it’s because you see something wrong and voiced out to object. And that’s exactly what I’m doing with Prince. So be fair and be consistent with your criteria.
Blessings all.
Hi Joshuawoo,
I agree with you. Prince said when you believe right, you live right. That’s very true. Problem is, is his preaching really all right? I wonder aloud based on my experiences with people going for his services. Wonder where he get his training from……
Just above, you can see comments from Simon (3rd comments) who seems resign that nothing can be done about famine and sickness and after hearing Prince’s preaching, he said and I quote “I rejoice because I know, there is nothing that I can do. There is nothing that I need to do. …………… But as Christians, we are protected in the house of God. The four faces of Christ are banners of love that will shield us from the 4 horseman that are coming our way.”
That is not the way to go ahead if we want a gracious and caring society. Of course all Christians can, should and must do something to make the place we live a better one.
Sure we cannot prevent a bank from going bust but we sure can help people in poverty……..like taking part of the $500 million to feed those facing famine.
Talking about $500 million, as reported in ST forum page of 27 Sept 08, I quote “Rock Production has provided a legal undertaking to JTC that the venue will be managed strictly on a commercial basis and will not be converted into a religious facility.”
So is this a Church building fund or a business investment fund? I think the answer is clear.
Read what Jesus said about true treasure and the danger of being too engrossed in chasing after material riches.
Also heed warning of Christ when he said not all who call Him Lord (and who else beside Christians will call Him Lord?) will enter in Heaven. Only true disciple who hear and act on His words. His commandment is to love God and love your neighbour. And by loving your neighbour, you show love to God.
Christianity is about faith, hope and love and nothing is greater than love - not even money……
Listen to God……Amen
Cool it bro.
There are basically 2 things you can do if you think his(or any other person’s) teachings are wrong.
1. Talk to the person personally about it.
2. Pray for that person.
Giving witty comparisons with a buddhist monk, and ‘contending’ his teachings are wrong in the web-sphere is not going to help much.(even if it’s true)
Hi Jason,
Can’t agree more with you!
All I have to say is that JP’s messages opened up my understanding of the Scriptures… I finally understood the diff between the Old n New covenants…. what Jesus has done for me on the cross… filled me with God’s love… and a fresh understanding of what it means to be secured in His love for me.
Can’t understand why Joshua is so angry and so bitter against JP.
Am praying for him, anyway.
Shalom
Bro,
That’s the problem. If the New Covenant is really understood, there will be NO tithing - so why is NCC enforcing tithing? No tithing does not mean we do not give……and tithing is NOT tied to blessings from God.
End of the day, do we really understand ?
Why I think people speak out against JP is simply because his teaching is dubious…..and the same question asked is : do you know where he got his training?
Hi JC,
NCC does NOT enforce tithing. All tithes and offerings are strictly voluntary, and a personal thing between the giver and God.
In fact, Pastor Prince has said many times that if you don’t have the revelation about tithing, don’t tithe.
Pastor Prince has preached only 4 full sermons on tithing from 2000 to 2008:
1) The Benefits Of Tithing (15/10/2000)
2) When Your Tithe Reminds God Of Christ (28/4/2002)
3) Your Tithe Testifies That He’s Alive (17/4/2005)
4) God’s Best Kept Secret On Tithing - Can You Take It? (17/2/2008)
ha…with the same mouth you curse and you bless…very spirtual leh….
Insightful!!!
Dont we all have that tendency?
Let glorifiy our Heavenly Father!
For it is written:
Let to weak be strong and the poor be rich
Isn’t Father is great when He already given us so much? NCC is not about Joseph Prince. NCC is about Jesus’ finished work and the glory shine brightly.
If Joseph Prince is lifted up, then everyone is blinded by the enemy but if God is exalted by speaking His Words through this man, then explosion of blessings will rain incessantly on NCC.
Hi Jason,
Thanks for your suggestion but I think that 1st suggestion is too naive.
The problem with Prince is that he has shut himself up form listening or even talking to others. I’d experience once with the church that they just stop their members from finding out or learning from others who differ with them.
And there are pastors who had send letters to Prince to which they didn’t receive any reply.
And I believe in the power of blogs and internet posting. If you are still doubting its effectiveness, pls review the March 6 Malaysia General Election,
Joshua,
That’s a blatant lie. JP hasn’t shut himself up. Neither does he tell his people not to talk to others or learn from others.
I cant comment about letters sent to him. I am not privy to that. I do know of some pastors who have been much blessed by him.
The GE of Malaysia was on Mar 8. You may have some of the truth with regards to power of blogs then but I cannot agree that it was the e media alone that brought about the changes.
I wish you can be more truthfiul and accurate.
Shalom
Hi tikesz,
I’m not bitter against Prince, the person. I’m all out against his teaching. If you can understand what I mean by that.
Prince opened up your understanding of the Scripture???? That’s a big joke given his twisting the Scripture and Jesus according to his own image.
Thank you for praying for me. Appreciate you.
Dear Joshua,
I have been a Christian, who tries to study the Word as faithfully as I can, for longer than you have lived.
To read you lambasting JP like that shows your sheer arrogance and pride.
Also the complete disrespect for me, another fellow Christian as though only you can see truth.
We will know a tree by its fruits - so far only a lot of heat and fire but very little that can be called fruits from you.
Shalom
Hi JC,
Agree with you.
I have no problem with $500million of church building but am questioning the teachings of this Prince.
Hi Joshua,
I like your name, which is the same as Jesus in Hebrew.
Please contact New Creation Church at 6338 4565, and ask to speak to any of the pastor, or even pastor Prince, if you have strong disagreement with the Senior Pastor’s teaching.
I strongly urge you to do so as this is only rightful thing to do as a Christian brother to correct and help other brothers/sisters, if you felt that they are blind-sided. Failing to do so would not be selfish and charitable.
Have a great day and God blessed.
Hi GBHFDL777,
I’ll just paste my reply to Jason to you:
The problem with Prince is that he has shut himself up form listening or even talking to others. I’d experience once with the church that they just stop their members from finding out or learning from others who differ with them.
And there are pastors who had send letters to Prince to which they didn’t receive any reply.
And I believe in the power of blogs and internet posting. If you are still doubting its effectiveness, pls review the March 6 Malaysia General Election,
Joshua woo,
You are so critical of others….I wonder what would other Christians think of you when on one hand you are emphasizing on God’s law and obedience but on the other hand, you are openly declaring your interest in gals, cigarettes, wine and beer in your own blog? Is there a double standard here?
Before attempting to remove the splinter in your brother’ eye…I guess, it is better that you examine yours first….
Ha..ha..take it easy…
When St Dominic was in Rome, seeking authorization for his order from the Pope, the Pope gave him a tour of the treasures of the Vatican, and remarked complacently (referring to Acts 3:6), “Peter can no longer say, ‘Silver and gold have I none.’” Dominic turned and looked straight at the Pope, and said, “No, and neither can he say, ‘Rise and walk.’”
Hi 357,
I’m sorry but i just can’t find anywhere in the Bible that forbids people to have interest in those listed in my blog. Pls guide me to those passages.
And just to distinguish that “having interest” is not “having”. For eg. I have interest in cigarettes is not equivalent to “smoking”. I’m seldom smoke. I did smoke before but didnt get myself addicted. On the other hand, I have a friend who has never smoke before but she is a cigarettes collector. She collects various brand of cigarettes. There was once she bought a beautiful container and placed cigarettes into it. She took a picture of it and sent it to me.
I dont think it is wrong to have interest in wine, beer, cigarettes, and gals. Hence there is no issue of obedient here.
Hi Joshua,
On your case again?
Play with fire but be prepared to be burnt sometime in the future if you have not experienced it before.
Me, I am a chicken - can I be tempted, YES of all the sins, hence the need to abstain and stay withing between the moral and providential will of God. I figured if I can still between these tracks, my paths would be made straight and the journey fulfilling.
Just sharing so that you will find joy and fun on your own journey……
Shalom.
Hi Journeyman,
Thank you for the insights. I think all of us are tempted in all ways. And everyone of us have our own fire to play with and burn at some point in time.
Joshua Woo,
I think, before you talk to JPrince, you may want to talk to your own pastor 1st..
Your reasoning: “Just having interest does not equal to having” is just so lame… Sure sounds like MJ explaining his love for the little ones or someone who claims that they enjoy watching XXX but it is purely for the sake of “artistic expression”..ha..ha..
Anyway, while you expect others to accept your choice or preferences in life..can you not respect others that they too, have their own preferences? No one is forcing these people to listen to JPrince…leave them alone and the rest of the world will leave you alone to indulge in your own personal interest, whatever that may be.
If you are so critical of others, would you allow others to be critical of you? Spare a thought for his family too. Like you, he has a family bro.
357
Dear Joshua Woo,
On your case again. Thanks to 357, I took a look at your blog. I just want to highlight the following:
- In your blog and now this post – you made known your interest in “gals, cigarettes, wine and beer …” and also justified yourself in having these interest.
- In 12 Aug 2008 – You made your opinion in speaking in tongues, but it read more like you were mocking this gift.
- In 25 July 2008 – You said “This is F**king wrong” on a certain topic.
Just want to advice you not to tempt the devil. No one intentionally becomes a smoker, they just have an “interest” and starts with a cigarette or two. No one intentionally becomes an alcoholic, they just start with a little wine for its appreciation. But when they are hit with life’s challenges or are not carefully, these people will hit these vices like bees to honey. I say this because in my work/business, I travel to many countries where such temptations are always staring at you in your face. I have seen families and lives destroyed because people always says “I am in control”, or “its only a little”, or “nothing wrong in having an interest in gals”. That is why you need to know, deep in your heart, what Jesus has done and the power of the Holy Spirit (eg tools like praying in tongues) which can take you through life and life’s challenges.
You appear to be a scholarly and intellectual person. You write as though you know much OF GOD and OF JESUS, but do you really know JESUS personally?
I attend and grew up in a mainstream church; but am supportive of JPrince and NCC as I have heard their messages and seen transformed lives.
Joshua, you are a young man and a juvenile in life. And after looking at your blog, I would go further to say that you have not seen much in life, and is fortunate or BLESSED to be encircled in a relatively safe environment.
Don’t put down a man of God like JPrince and his teachings to which has changed many lives, and have equipped them with Godly tools to live their life victoriously.
Hi 357 and LBL,
I’ve never attack the person of Joseph Prince. I am trying to be objective in discussing his teaching. If both of you enjoy ad hominem, you may go on with it. I will just keep quiet as I think it is immature to play with ‘personal attack’.
Besides, I have made myself transparent through my blog. That’s my integrity in the blogosphere, unlike those who hide behind pseudonyms.
Besides, I find that all those allegations on my interest on gals, beers, wine etc (i wonder why both of you didn’t highlight ‘cars’ as i think that indulgence in cars has more negative effects than wine) are all irrational.
Anyway,you may keep up the ad hominem if that’s the only way you know how to engage in conversation.
Dear Joshua,
Please… you started it all…ad hominem…and all!
Even in your response.. “(i wonder why both of you didn’t highlight ‘cars’ as i think that indulgence in cars has more negative effects than wine) ”
Direct or indirect or veiled - you are just trying to imply that JP has his own failings which are worse than yours.
(To clarify to ther readers, JP may drive an big European car but I won’t call that an indulgence.)
Shalom
LBL’s remark:
Joshua, you are a young man and a juvenile in life. And after looking at your blog, I would go further to say that you have not seen much in life, and is fortunate or BLESSED to be encircled in a relatively safe environment.
HAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaHAHahaha…. that makes my day. Thank God that Blogpastor and others who really have met and know me think otherwise.
Dear Joshua,
JPrince and his teachings are one and the same. His teaching of Grace is his life and purpose. Attack the teaching, attack the man.
You hide behind your interlect, while others hide behind pseudonyms …. we are no different!
As I have mentioned before, this Blog has become a “hantam NCC” site for folks like you.
Cheers
Hi LBL,
I do not think anybody wants to hantam NCC or Mr Prince - just that some of us are skeptical and other’s critical.
Find it illogical that attacking the man’s teaching is the same as attacking the man - since some of us think he is a man of God (presume it implies the rest of us are heathens?), attacking his teaching will be like attacking God - sounds a stretched extrapolation.
My own position is that when you become a public figure or phenomenon you attract flies, friendly or otherwise, cst la vive. Not dissimilar to publishing a new scientific theorem.
How perfect is sinful man?
All of us will never know until the eulogy - at that time the praises would be as it gets as it will do influence the guy in the BBQ or pit. Even at that time, we have developed “brand transference,” tools to use the dead guy’s glory for our own gain.
Objectively, some of us are trying to get people to think for themselves - like the credit swap defaults - was always a scam but all everybody did not object because their greed was being fed.
Look at Christianity - after 200 years our social stats are the same as the general public - these results tell me we have not done the right things even though we all profess to do all the RIGHT things, hence the righteous indignation.
Some of us are content, I am not and hope to find fellow travelers and seekers of the ultimate truth and one day it will come from the most improbable source - that will be a eureka moment.
Like my melayu friend says - relax lah bro, we come in all shapes and hue.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” Martin Luther King.
Lets play soccer - kick the ball but not the player. Grace and graciousness is infectious. Hope you will be infected.
Hi Blogpastor,
Just wondering if your blog engine will be able to stand this enormous amount of crap we are posting…..? Hate to be the last straw…….
I have been fren of Joshua since 13 or 14, more than a decade, we have been schoolmates, neighbours, business partners, went to the same church together and studied the bible together and are still very much in touch.
Whatever anyone can say bout him, he is certainly NOT a hypocrite or a “had it easy kid” or someone without experience, or even someone who reject god or moral.
After converting at the age of 17-18, I have seen Josh changed for the better in many areas. But I think it’s not just about being a good moral person, Josh has been maturing in his thought and passion for god and god’s truth. There are many things needed to be polished, but this is a man who is true to god, himself and people around him.
On the issue of moral and right and wrong, one of my elders recently told me, “as i get older, I see more grays than black or white”. I think it is telling, and perhaps when Josh, or his hero Rowan Williams, take difficult complex stance in a certain issue, they are seen as “immoral” or relativists or ungodly or compromising. But I am convinced they stand where they stood because life is certainly not easy and simple and theirs are the reflection of this reality, we can disagree, but if we take for granted that life and life’s issues are as simple as saying “i am right” or “MY reading of the bible is right” and “you are NOT”, then we’ll not only throw away all the worth of a human being, but challenged the profoundity of god’s reality.
“praying in tongue” is a tool?
I have shared elsewhere that we often missed the point of pentecost if we only look at the “tongue” thing and not also look at the bigger picture of how god is overturning Babel at Jesus’ resurrection. (Note: I shared this in a brethren church where criticism against tongue can be very very intense. So it’s a criticism on both side of the divide whenever any of us focus on the speaking per se and not the meaning of the phenomenon)
In Babel, god scattered the people by confusing their language
In Pentecost, god unite the people by confusing languages.
There’s a sense of undoing of the effect of human rebellion and this is in line with the gospel narratives of Jesus ushering the new age (new creation)….
Encountered speaking in tongues some 10 years ago in a pentecostal church -it was quite disconcerting initially but eventually grew acustomed to the “ectasy-euphoria extravagant type worship” Afterall, if they are comfortable in this worship, who am I to object
The pentocostals used this as a differentiator - (from mainline churches) and some even suggested that it was the manifestation of the holy spirit’s gift.
Attended this church for 3 years until I felt dissatisfied with the “pat” explanations and needed more “meat” - initiated my going to source in a serious way. Also found that they are many types of gifting and God is fair….
Acts10:34-35
Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.
Let us not be dismissive of God’s given talents in each of us - maybe mine is to be the “pain in the ass realist auditor of ………..” - sure eachof us will not less important than the other in His eyes - just need to do my simple job as well as I can……..
Till this day, am still puzzled because I have never gotten a logical answer from my gifted tongue speaking bretheran - tried getting an answer to this question ” Excuse me bro/sis, but do you understand the tongue he/she is speaking in?”
Please make your own anlyses and draw your own imperfect conclusion - this is my personal precious and unique experience choroegraphed by my personal guide and savior.
Still wondering why the tongue gift had been given if nobody else seems to understand?
Why God?
Shalom…..
Hi Steven,
I’m very grateful to have someone like you who have been faithful in journeying life along side to state something on my behalf.
Hi Journeyman,
You are right. We have never want to “hantam” NCC here. We are merely having e-conversation over different opinion on certain issue. Personally I am not concern over whatever a person do in private or public (unless it causes great moral outrage or injustice).
My concern is again and again the Gospel. To see and ensure the proclamation of the historical Jesus is one thing that I dont think we can compromise in any way no matter how apathetic we can be. Hence I’m all out to be critical over various allegation made on the person or the message of Jesus and his disciples.
Peace & Blessings.
Hi, Steven,
Wow…you are such a good friend…standing by your pal. JWoo is so lucky to have a childhood friend like you.
JWoo,
Good for you, to have a friend like steven.
While you have a good friend who are willing to stand by you, I am sure you are aware there are at least 17K to 20K+ people who are willing to stand by JPrince and his ministry. While your good friend tries to claify and to get the understanding of others about your character and interest..why is it so hard for you to accept or understand that like your friend, the rest of the people have their own preferences too. Everyone has a right to their own preferences and they, like Steven, is standing by their man.
While you give yourself execuses for your personal interest, I am sure, very sure, 100% sure, if JPrince or any one of his pastors were to put the same kind of interest or remarks in their blogs…you will be the first to throw the stones at them.
Geee…what or who makes you think that you are the ‘authorized” yard stick for bible truth? and yet you have such a very different set of yard stick for your own personal interest.
If you are so upbeat about the truth that you possessed, try setting up a church and see whether you could get at least 1000 people to attend your service.
It is so true, everyone is right in their own eyes. Am I glad that JPrince did not have to respond to all these kinds of emails or phone calls..where got time, man?
357
Wow, another compelling large number adherent - 17-25K of followers of anything is impressive.
So what does a large number collection prove?
Only guys who know truth?
God’s only chosen
Maybe addition of a few millionaires and millionairess or billionaires would make them more credible, question is of what?
How about adding some cabinet minsters, MPs and judges - lagi better.
Even the son of God did not have so many with His sermon on the mount
PLUS+++
S$500miilion worth of commercial investments and the many numerous material blessings.
This simple journeyman from small kampong is bedazzled already - WOW, it is holy to be rich, successful and mighty.
Maybe the beatitudes are a lie and the sermon on the mount was a mistake?
What on earth, could the son of God be thinking of?
Join the prosperity club, membership has its privilages (acknowledgement to Amex for their very apt phrase).
Alas in 2000 plus years, we have only had one perfect human, we crucified that guy and all of us are claiming indignant, righteous superiority.
What a bunch of wannabies - the hope is some are aware of their miserable state others are contented to have found heaven on earth.
Hi Journeyman,
Rightly said. Numbers have least say when it comes to such issues.
On the other hand, as I want to walk the journey with others as much as possible, yet I’ve given up conversing with people who just don’t adhere to language’s logic such as the law of identity and law of sequitur. Result from conversing with these people ends with non-sequitur arguments and immature “personal attacks”.
So it’s not that I’m arrogant or despising. It’s like talking to someone who doesn’t adhere to the law of English language. The way he uses preposition, nouns, verbs, and tenses are so messed up and ends up making sentences which doesn’t make sense. And that is no point and just a waste of time.
Dear journeyman,
Your comments so far don’t say anything about your being on a journey nor even your desired destination!
You merely sneer at others along your way. You only use your relationshp with Joshua, Steven and Buddhist lover to shout every one else down. You would not see nor hear what other fellow sojourners have experienced and learnt.
As I can see so far: what others not in your gang of 4 see or understand about Jesus doen’t matter at all to you. Like Joshua, you will say you are not arrogant nor despising… some choose to be blind to themselves n truth.
While the gang of 4 profess to be for truth, they mess it up when it suits them To you, gang of 4, Christ can even proclaim a monk to be more Christlike!!. What a complete distortion. How can anyone be Christlike when the life of Christ - which comes from acknowledgoing and trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross- is not in him. What does it show? When it suits you it doesn’t matter what the monk believes in nor what he preaches - only the externals especially if it gives you a chance to bash JP and others.
Who is bringing in the non-sequitur arguments and immature “personal attacks”.?
It was journeyman who inflammatorily accuse NCC attracts “millionaires and Cabinet ministers” to make them (NCC) credible! Who pour scorn on their building project when all these matters were not part of the discussion.
The 20,000 people in NCC plus tens of thousands who listen to their cds and millions to their broadcasts may not have all the truth about Jesus… but reading what the gang have written here and in their blogs, they don’t have either!
Don’t be just content to be defensive about what you don’t know or understand with your so called “intellectual” and seemingly “theological” arguements.
If you are really on a journey … Jesus says ” I am the Way, the Truth and the Life” Life is not found “in the 8fold paths nor in the 4 noble truths” of the monk
Shalom,
I have been accused of being blind, contradictory and more recently, sneering and inflammatory.
Like helpless riding hood, i excalimed grandpapa what supernatural xray vision and long range neural scans you have. What wolfish qualities you exude. Phew, it was jusa fairy tale of graceless speculation.
Seems that some minds can confuse rhetorical irony as a statement of “truth.”
Death is always the ultimate destination for all human, it is what comes next that is of interest and if it can be more attainable by being a intolerent, bible quoting zealot or a question, unsure seeker of the Truth who relies on the bible for his gps. Decide for your self without being swayed by large number compulsion. Maybe if you pay more you get more….consider CDOs and CDSs - large banks told you the truth? Will large anything be that different from banks?
Yesterdays ultimate financial genius Alan Greenspan has finally admitted to being “mistaken.” Some discerning investors already knew that many years ago but billions of people still believed Alan until last Friday.
Sadly, this is the truth about compelling large numbers theory as a means of supporting irrational and illogical discussion. Histroy is full of well intentioned fools who holdup progress because they had oppressive numbers.
Gallielio and Copernicus were examples of a having a stupid “anonited” Pope and a gutless scientist. Things have not changed that much except for the wonderful whacky web.
Jesus had few followers and most were “martyred” (euphemism for executed for their “wrong” beliefs) - on probability what do you think are the chances that “mega assemblies of believers” would be the way forward for spreading of the REAL Faith to the world. Given that Our Father could choose anytime to send his precious kid to earth, why in the stone age and not in the information age.
This is also the recurring theme for Rice and Webbers muscial - Jesus Christ Superstar
Commend that you should listen to last week’s podcast by John Ortberg at Menlo Presbyterian Church on his version on the probable framework of the NT church.
BTW the Pod cast is absolutuely FREE, downside is you do not get a handsome photography of the author.
You should ask yourself, why Ortberg and his trustee board are not charging for the podcast?
Yes, Jesus is the way, but we do not need guides with questionable vesting. If the talk and the walk does not match, you will have a system failure in the future.