“Destined to Reign” book review by Dr Gordon Wong
I came across this review written by Dr Gordon Wong, Old Testament professor with Trinity Theological College. There is wisdom to be gained from reading and reflecting on what he has to say about Joseph Prince’s teaching in his book “Destined to Reign”.
I recently read the book Destined to Reign (2007) by Joseph Prince, the senior pastor of New Creation Church. When I conveyed some of my thoughts on the book, one of my pastoral colleagues thought it would be helpful if I shared them with more Methodists. Let me begin by saying that Pastor Prince’s emphasis on grace has been a great blessing from God to many. My nephew and cousin belong to New Creation church and have grown immensely in their relationship with God. My prayer is that God will use Prince’s gifts of preaching to even more blessed effect as he allows the Holy Spirit to convict him (graciously, as always) of areas that could be improved. I hope my comments below will be helpful towards that end.
1. Prince’s teaching on God’s Grace and Anger
His emphasis on grace has led some to accuse him of giving Christians a licence to sin. He vehemently rejects this criticism (e.g. p. 30) and explains that a person who has properly experienced grace is one who is inspired and empowered to turn away from sin.
What I like: the book’s stress on the power of God’s grace is correct. The grace of God in the Bible is meant to inspire holiness, and not allow sinfulness. The book’s strong emphasis on grace is true to the Bible. Self-condemnation and guilt are real problems that afflict many people today, and the message of God’s grace is truly good news.
What I had reservations about:
In stressing grace, the book appears to suggest that God no longer gets angry with Christians. If this is what it really means to teach, then this is not biblical. On p. 41, read: “We do see God being angry in the Old Testament, and in the book of Revelation, where his anger is toward those who have rejected Jesus. But for you and me, believers in the new covenant, we are not part of the Old Testament and we will never be punished because we have already received Jesus. As believers, God is no longer angry with us because all His anger for our sins fell upon Jesus at the cross.”I suspect (and hope) that what the book really means is that God’s anger is not the type that takes delight in condemning us and pointing out how horrible we are. Also, I think (and hope) that what the book means to say is that God’s anger and punishment on believers does not result in the loss of eternal salvation. But to say the above is very different from saying that God gets angry only with unbelievers and never with true believers (p. 41), or to insist that “the Holy Spirit never convicts you of sin” (p.134). Does the Bible really say that God never gets angry with believers anymore? In the Bible (both Old and New Testaments), God is presented as getting angry with believers. For example, the letters to the 7 churches (i.e. people who profess to be believers) in Revelation 2-3 include a lot of stinging rebuke and condemnation from Jesus himself, including the use of threats of punishment and judgement. (I find attempts to say that the “churches” in Revelation do not really refer to believers as far-fetched.) God Himself seems to punish two professing believers Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11. Isn’t this an example of the Holy Spirit, through Peter, convicting Ananias and Sapphira of their sins? Or must we assume the (not so gracious) judgement that Ananias and Sapphira cannot have been true believers?? For argument’s sake, even if they were not true believers, they were certainly in the church assembly. So there is place still for Spirit-inspired preaching for the conviction of sin within church walls. There may be many “believers” like Ananias and Sapphira who need the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin and our need for grace. Perhaps the book could have made a clearer distinction between divine anger at Christians that results in the loss of eternal salvation (which is what he is most concerned to speak against) and divine anger at Christians that aims to correct and discipline (which he seems to reject). To be fair, Prince does accept the positive idea of child discipline or training (pp. 65-67), but he rejects any association of this discipline with the words “anger” or “punishment”.
God’s anger was, and can still be an expression of His love and grace, just like a loving mother who sometimes scolds her child. (Prince is, hopefully, only joking when he implies, p.37, that children will become schizophrenic if parents sometimes express happiness and at other times anger!) To say that God will never get angry or punish believers anymore may promote (unwittingly or mistakenly) a distortion of the Bible’s teaching about God’s grace. God’s anger is an expression of His love and grace towards his children. Prince would perhaps do better to speak of righteous anger (Ephesians 4:26) versus unrighteous anger. God never gets (unrighteously) angry with us, but loving grace demands a place for righteous anger as long as His beloved children still need discipline.
2. Prince’s teaching on Law
The book is very strong on rejecting the value of the Law in the OT as being of any positive help for Christians. For example, on p.120 there is a section entitled “The Ten Commandments Kill” and it says that these commandments are “the ministry of death”.
What I like: I think (and hope) that the book is trying to say two biblical things about the Law. Firstly, it may be warning us that the Ten Commandments can be used or preached in a condemning way that destroys the soul of people and makes them cringe in fear or turn away from God as a harsh Master. This is a good biblical warning. Secondly, the book’s description of the Law as a ministry of death rather than life correctly describes and reinforces the biblical view that obedience to the Law cannot lead us to receive salvation. It is correct and very good of Prince to speak against those who are “trying to use the Ten Commandments to remove their sins” (p.124). We are saved by grace, not by obedience to the Ten Commandments or the Law. If these two points represent what Prince teaches on the Law in the Bible, then this is good and biblical.
What I had reservations about: That the Law can be preached and understood in such a way as to promote soul-destroying guilt and deeper condemnation is certainly true. Prince is to be commended for eloquently highlighting this biblical warning about the danger of the Law, and stressing the wonderful grace of God that forgives us all through Christ. But while there are many who need this message of God’s grace-filled forgiveness to save them from their guilt and despair over sin, there are many others who need the message of God’s grace-filled discipline and rebuke to save them from presumption and indifference to sin. Prince’s emphasis on free and full forgiveness is very good at helping the former, but not so good for the latter. Does Prince believe that guilt is the only problem people have because of sin? If so, that would present an incomplete picture. Sin does not only imprison us in guilt; it also lulls us into indifference and presumption. The Bible addresses both these effects of sin. The book appears to suggest that there is no way of preaching the Law in a graceful manner in order to set us free from our sinful indifference and presumption.
Similarly, Prince is correct to stress that the Law cannot save or justify, but his writings give the impression that the Law has no other positive function except to prove that we cannot be saved by it. But the Law in the Bible is also presented as a positive expression of God’s grace in telling us what God desires. But because Prince contrasts Law and Grace in this manner, he gives the impression of implying that the Law has only the negative value of telling people that they cannot be saved by their attempts at obedience to the Law. The Law certainly does perform that valuable function, but it does much more as well. It helps us know what is good in God’s eyes. The book is weak on emphasising the ongoing value of the Law for both Christians and unbelievers.
To be fair to this book, there are certain parts of the Bible that also speak in similarly strong negative tones against the Law (e.g. most of Galatians and parts of the books of Romans and Hebrews). But this negative view is balanced out in other parts of the Bible that are very positive about the Law (e.g. Jesus in Matt 5:19-20; James 1:25; Psalm 119 etc.). In other words, the Law as a means of salvation is spoken of very negatively in the Bible, but the Law as a means of showing us God’s pleasure or desire for our lives is spoken of very positively. The book seems to emphasise only the negative picture of the Law. Doing so would fail to do justice to the biblical balance which speaks also of the ongoing positive value of the Law for Christians. Paul, himself, could sum up the Law very positively as teaching us to love one another (Gal 5:14; Rom 13:8,10).
3. Prince’s teaching on Healing
Healing is a big topic in the Bible, and it is not the main theme of Prince’s book. But from the little he says in his final full chapter “Good Things Happen” (pp. 287ff), Prince relates testimonies of people who were healed when they received the grace and forgiveness of God. He also states that “once you know that you have been forgiven of all your sins, past, present and future, the healing of all our diseases follows” (p.290).
What I like: I think Prince is correct to say that the Bible speaks of a God who heals our diseases, and this is a true expression of the forgiveness and grace of God. Physical healing is taught and prayed for and experienced in the Bible.
What I had reservations about: Whilst the book speaks of Bible passages where physical healing is expected and takes place, it says nothing about the passages that accept (without surprise or anguish) that miraculous physical healing did not take place e.g. 2 Tim 4:20; Philippians 2:25-27; 1 Tim 5:23; Gal 4:13-14. Incidentally, Galatians 4:13-14 tells us explicitly that Paul did have a bodily sickness which resulted in the greater good of the Gospel being preached contra Prince’s statement that “Paul did not suffer any sickness or disease” (p. 71). The problem is not so much with what Prince affirms viz. that healing is a blessing from a God who is full of grace; the problem is with what he omits to affirm viz. that physical illness without healing on earth can also fall within the gracious providence of God. The Bible teaches us both to pray for physical healing and to be prepared to endure illness with patient endurance. The victorious Christian life is one that remains faithful to God in both times of abundance and poverty, in sickness or in health, for richer or for poorer (cf. Philippians 4:12-13). I do not know the ministry of Prince well enough to be sure of what he really thinks about healing on earth. Perhaps if you listen long enough to his sermons, you may be able to make a fairer assessment. Does he preach to help Christians cope with the onslaught of poverty and illness, or does he speak only of removing sickness and suffering by effortless faith? We need both messages, because that is the balance we find in Scripture.
In general, most preachers are prone to partial teaching. We all tend to favour one side of the balance more than the other as a result of our personal experience of God’s dealings with us. The danger comes when we imply that the side we prefer is the only true side of biblical truth!
May God grant us wisdom and discernment as we seek to live in ways that befit those who have been saved by such a wonderful grace as that which our Lord Jesus has lavished on us.
Postscript: There are several places where I do not agree with Prince’s interpretation of the Bible verses (e.g. pp. 124f on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; p.263-65 on the cold, hot and lukewarm Laodiceans in Rev 3:15-16), but these are disagreements over the interpretation of specific phrases that can commonly be found amongst devout Bible teachers. My comments above focus on some major issues that discerning Christians should reflect on more carefully.
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Umm, that’s an image of D2RD rather than D2R
Now I see what you mean? The wrong book cover? Thanks for observation. Changed.
I am no theologian by university standards, but speaking as an experienced sheep who has searched the Scriptures for 24 years (saved as a Southern Baptist, weaned at a Calvary Chapel, sanctified thru a few non-denominationals, set free at the Assemblies of God) I can most assuredly say that the diet of the Gospel of Grace has been the most confirmed “yes and amen ” in my spirit since I’ve been saved. My relationship with the Lord Jesus has soared exponentially, and I am free to receive God’s love like I always heard I was supposed to be able to receive. Any reservations Dr. Wong had about the Gospel of Grace being taught without emphasizing “The Law certainly does perform that valuable function, but it does much more as well. It helps us know what is good in God’s eyes.” misses the point of Grace. The Law was intended not to show what was good in God’s eyes, but what is perfect. We are not going to be made perfect by hearing it ( I know; I tried !) I was made perfect by Jesus’ obedience to the Law for me. Now the Holy Spirit is freer in me to live the right way as was His intendion in the first place. (Thank You LORD!) I have seen first hand what mixing Grace and Law can do to “us sheep”, and I REFUSE to go back there again. I have tasted (finally!) and seen that the Lord is good.
Whether Joseph Prince is the teacher of this does not matter, for I believe that in the time we live in, the Lord would make the very rocks cry out.
Hi Debbie,
You wrote, ‘Now the Holy Spirit is freer in me to live the right way as was His intendion in the first place.’ How do you know what is the right and acceptable way of the Lord without God stipulating it in the first place? Free to do what? What we want or what God wanted? How do you know what is required in the latter? I appreciate the intent of the Law and obey the Spirit of the letter of the Law. See the value behind the Law, otherwise it is just a burden to carry.
Thank you Dr Gordon Wong for your insight which I find helpful and balanced on the issue of law and grace. God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. He was gracious when he gave the Law, and he was gracious when he sent his Son to die for us. Neither cancels out the other for both come from the same God.
I appreciate Dr. Wong’s Christian and unjudgmental presentation of his views.
I agree whole-heartedly with Ms. Gordon.
I think the biggest “mistake” being made here is that we are not making the distinction (or lack thereof)between saved and unsaved. More often than not if we dug a bit deeper and discovered who the writer (whether Pastor Prince or Scripture) was referring to it would clear up a lot.
I believe another miscommunication is again caused by a lack of distinction. This time between sin and sinner. God hates sin. God loves the sinner. God’s wrath will forever be toward sin, it is no longer toward the forgiven sinner.
I believe we too often try to humanize God. We cannot even begin to understand His anger or His love, but I am certain Christ appeased His anger and that He is God’s expression of love.
The law remains in effect to a lesser or greater degree for those not mature enough to receive the whole doctrine of grace. It allows the unsaved to feel condemnation and shows us our need for a savior, without whom the letter of the law brings death.
Grace brings the perfected (mature) Christian to the place of loathing for sin. As we behold Grace hanging from a cross for us we feel loathing for the cause.
Humans too often struggle with self-loathing rather than sin-loathing, because when we commit an act of sin (missing the mark of the glory of God) the accuser of the brethren immediately begins to speak to us to affirm how loathsome we are. Too often we agree with him rather than the Truth – I am the perfected work of Christ.
Paul said it best, when he said it is not I that do these things (I loath) but sin that dwells in me.
Jesus said He didn’t come to do away with the law, He came to that which we could not – fulfill the law. For us it is fulfilled. For the world it still condemns.
That fulfillment is transferred to us by Grace. If we are not under grace we are under the law.
If one feel presumptuously indifferent to sin then we are not a mature Christian led by grace – and I would question whether we were saved.
For me the main issue is this: If one is a saved (repentant, forgiven, baptized, born-again, spirit-filled) believer the law has no place in our life – we are under the New Covenant of grace and experiencing Life.
If one is unsaved (never repented, never received forgiveness of sins, never baptized, never born again, filled with the Holy Ghost) then we are still (to a lesser or greater degree) under the Old Covenant of law and experiencing death.
Hi tmbatterson,
Have you ever wonder how the people in the Old Testament are saved since their salvation are based on Old Covenant relationship with God?
hey, i’m a youth, 15, currently worshiping in Fairfield Preaching Point, an outreach service branch of Fairfield Methodist Church, yes, i am a Methodist. ok, first of all, there’s nothing wrong with emphasis on grace, but Prince’s failure to remind them the consequences of sin is the problem, causing a huge misunderstanding and omission of the whole truth. yes, there is no condemnation to who those who are in Christ Jesus, as said in
Romans 8:1 “There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.”
however “Christians,” specifically from New Creation Church, are using this verse to defend themselves, and to, yes, use it(and grace) as a license for sin, claiming to be in Christ, and failing to realize what to means to BE IN CHRIST, to be in Christ is also for Christ to be in you, as said in
John 15:4 “Remain in me, and I WILL remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.” (refer to John 15 verses, 1-8 for proof of context)
as said in Scripture, we are known by our fruit, our fruit is evidence, evidence of what? change. so Jesus is the one who works a change in us, because evidence of change is the bearing fruit, and we cannot bear fruit without Him. So, if God, SO BIG, something you claim to have, and there is NO CHANGE in you, i don’t think there is Christ in you. Having said in Scripture that if you remain in Him, and He in you.
if you don’t have Christ in you, you are NOT in Christ. Bringing up again and coming to a conclusion
Romans 8:1 “There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.”
There is no condemnation for THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST, therefore, not being in Christ, then .. oh .. I hear thunder.
Shalom,
Every church has its fair share of immature believers. NCC with its large proportion of young people would have its share of such believers too. Having said that, I know enough people from NCC who are mature believers walking in the grace of God and producing fruit in their lives.
I have listened to Joseph Prince’s teachings and attended NCC services before. And while I do not agree with everything he teaches or NCC does, I can see that God is working in and through NCC and JP. For example, a young friend of mine was set free from years of condemnation and insecurity just by reading Joseph Prince’s first book ‘Destined to Reign’, when years of being in another church did nothing but brought him more condemnation. Surprising, but true.
I would agree that we need to be reminded occasionally about sin and its consequences, but only so much. Too much and we become mired in being so sin-conscious that we are not conscious of our victory in the Son of God. More Son-conscious teaching to sin-conscious teaching is what the church today needs. If a church or a pastor has to teach more sin and its consequences to keep the sheep in line, it reveals some insecurity about the power of the Gospel of Grace.
So as fellow believers in the Body of Christ, we also have several options in front of us. We can choose to lay at His feet in prayer the people and the teachings we perceive to be wrong, while also giving God the glory for the good things He is doing. Or we can continue to debate who is right and wrong, start to fling mud at one another, and inadvertently join voices with the accuser of the brethren who is happy to see the people of God point fingers at one another. There is already too much of the latter in the blogsphere.
I am very happy to hear a 15 yrs old talking serious things on faith; not out of emotion, but rather out of cognitive understanding of scriptures.
Good. Keep it up.
BTW, Reuben, I agreed with you.
Old Man.
Is Joseph Prince even a christian ??Does he even know Christ and the cross ??
Quote
“There may be many “believers” like Ananias and Sapphira who need the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin and our need for grace.”
Please check the book of Acts correctly.
Whenever it is a believer, the bible introduce him/her
as ” A certain disciple”
If it is just a non- beliver, the bible intro
him/her
as ” A certain man”
That’s what JP says. What about Martha?
Luke10:38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
Notice Luke is the writer of both Like and Acts.
Let me help you out, Martha was not yet a believer at that point in time?
Reuben, i’m amazed at your knowlage, absolutely Holy Gost inspired. Keep up seeking God!
I agree with you.
I only can say this, I was once blind but now I see. I was once lived in bondage but now I’m free by God’s grace and His unconditional love through realizing what our Lord Jesus had accomplished for me through His Cross. And all these was because I got a hold of Pastor Joseph Prince book ‘Destined To Reign’. Glory To God! To all who disagree, let’s agree at least, our Lord is getting all the glory and His name is being lifted up not Pastor Prince name. Afterall, if one is on the ‘judging mode’, how can they receive?
How can you argue with one that who was once blind and now see? Or one who was under bondage for years and set free live a life knowing is all because of the grace of God through the finished work of Jesus?
I’ve witness so many of people whose life being transformed after hearing the message of God’s grace. Is sad to see believer in Christ having dispute instead of giving glory to God. Let’s give Glory instead when you hear somebody’s life being transformed and Praise the Lord for His goodness. Amen!
Praise God, Jesusgirl, for what the Lord is doing in your life!
Hey Jesusgirl, I am so glad that you are living inHis amazing grace!! I am too! Reading Destined to Reign has freed me from a lifetime of condemnation and performance, (I’m 47, was born again at 22)looking at myself to be better and be right has not worked to give me a victorious life as a christian. Thank Jesus for paying for my righteousness…Now I am His and I am dwelling place for Him. Now I sin less and Praise Jesus more. He is Center place in my life..The joy He gives is like none other. So sad for people who are fearful of this abundance of grace.
Just wondering how come the Bible didn’t set you free from condemnation and make you a better person but JP’s book did.
Is the Bible inferior to JP’s book? Can JP’s book do something that the Bible cannot do?
If that is the case, you are a Princian not Christian.
I can say that listening to Pastor Prince and reading the book freed me from guilt and condemnation. While I do not agree with everything in the book I found that as I read it a great sense of comfort and peace came over me.
Renita, I am glad you are able to take what is good and benefit from it.
Great review, I really appreciate a balanced review like this. Over all I think what we need to keep in mind that we are all flawed in some ways and I would be scared if I didn’t disagree with some small part of another person’s theologies. Joseph Prince isn’t perfect and neither am I. Even if he is slightly skewed or narrow in his focus, I’m desperate for a speaker like this in my church. There are so many churches that you can attend and all it feels like it someone beating you over the head with a bat. Pastors are notorious for using guilt to get volunteers, raise money for different projects or even using guilt to encourage us to live a better life (kind of an oxymoron eh?). I think pastors find it daunting to lean on grace in messages because it takes control out of our hands. So, maybe Joseph Prince doesn’t have all his ducks in a row, who cares? He’s just another follower like me and you. Eat the meat and throw out the bone, remember, we follow Christ.
I’ve only recently listened to and watched pastor Joseph Prince. I do not know enough of his teaching yet, but perhaps a small portion, which makes it difficult to interpret accurately. I can say with confidence however, that in the small amount that i’ve heard, grace is emphasized, and in a theologically accurate manner, with the cross as central. I hear of solid teaching on imputed righteousness, Jesus complete satisfaction of the demands of God’s justice and so on. When Iisten to many on the radio, or in evangelical churches, they sing about all of this, and then preach the law. The only power available to obey God is the power of grace that affects the believer, moves him or her to trust and obey their marvelous Savior. So often this is missing. I say, let us, if we must, err on the side of grace, for the law alone either leads to grace, or kills, while the grace of God saves.
I like Dr Wong’s balanced review of Joseph Prince’s book. It answered or should I say confirmed the reservations that I still have abt JP. I am however very supportive of JP’s ministry because I know some friends that have been personally blessed by his book. I think the Lord is able to use pastors like JP to reach and touch those whom He loves. (c’mon, the Lord used even a donkey to correct Balaam, right?) so I think we should not “cast stones” but let the Lord do His work. After all, Jesus has warned us that those who teach and preach but who do not do what He expects of them will be greatly punished. Hopefully, when Joseph Prince dies, he will get to hear the Lord say, “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” Until then, I’d better get on with my own act and not worry about what others think, eh?
I am so grateful to pastor Prince for teaching true grace, as to be under grace is to be under the Law of Love which far exceeds the 10 commandments, the Law of Love (love the Lord with ALL your heart and love your neighbour as yourself) is the one written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit living in us, transforming us from glory to glory. That is why I believe so many people have miss-understood his message…
The Law is for unbelievers, when the Law of Love really gets hold of you, you really hate sin… which is the only reverential fear believers should have… so be Jesus-conscious, much-forgiven conscious and grace-conscious. The Law is to expose sin in the self-righteous and the unbelievers, not those who know they can do nothing apart from God. It all depends which category you belong to.
@”Does he preach to help Christians cope with the onslaught of poverty and illness, or does he speak only of removing sickness and suffering by effortless faith?”
I hear him preached on poverty, but not in such as way that the poor must endure it because it is a blessing from God. NO..
ptr Prince I believe wanted everyone not to be poor, and sick.
ptr Prince simply tells you who you are in Christ,
and that you have “healing, prospering”
I can testify about the truth of what Jesus did at the cross.
Jesus bore our sickness and poverty. so that we have “healing” and “prospering”
and it is effortless. you have no part.. because Jesus did the work.
At least that is what I hear from his sermons.
now, If ptr Prince is against “healing and prospering” then I am wrong about him.. but not Jesus. because Jesus is not against them.
grace and peace
{What I had reservations about:
In stressing grace, the book appears to suggest that God no longer gets angry with Christians. If this is what it really means to teach, then this is not biblical.} This part of the comments I like most.
Another point is that Ps Prince preached that you dont have to confess sin or dont have to be guilty concsious when you make mistakes! Now we believers know that JESUS has died for our sins. We accept. BUT DO WE MAKE MISTAKES and DO we have to own the mistakes and apologise to GOD? That’s the question. Ps Prince’s message seems to say that just because you confess “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus” you are absolved from all mistakes and you reign again as if no mistake is made! How can this be?
DOES GOD PUNISH? or put it another way, DOES GOD ALLOW MORAL WRONGS TO BE DONE and THE DOER GETS AWAY WITH THESE MORAL WRONGS?
just thought I’d answer what you queried here first I just watched a clip of his on youtube and he said that confessing our sins gave us freedom from them and allowed us to live more righteously he used different wording but basically that’s what he said. Second salvation at the cross and Gods grace covers our sins so it depends if you mean that sinning cuts you off from God or his gift of salvation then then definitely not. But he may discipline us for our sins I’m not entire sure about that one and I don’t have the time to do a good study on it anyway Blessings
All said and done, Ps Prince has done a good job for JESUS! Yet, does NEW CREATION CHURCH need a $500 million church to propel the gospel to the World? Can this sum be used to help orphans or the needy? And Pastor’s take is that “DONT BE LIKE JUDAS?” Is anyone asking why spend $500 million on a church building be similar to a character like Judas? Is this not JUDGING? Do we judge by people asking questions?
Hi Paul
Am from NCC, PPrincee’s church. If you read blogpastor’s latest on lack of congregation space in Singapore, you will understand why NCC took the way it took. It’s a radical way but a way which God opened the door to. Otherwise, it would have taxed the congregation mercilessly to push out this kind of numbers. But the congregation gave what we could 3 times of offering over 3 years. The rest came from reserves of 20% or so we set aside from tithes. No one can tell how this building might be a blessing in future but God’s hand is evident from the beginning.
Doesn’t mean 500 mil goes to a church to house a growing congregation of 24000, means 500 mil less goes to the poor. I am still supporting the missions I supported and more.
Judas was aghast at the woman who brought the alabaster jar of perfume to Jesus’s feet as its worth 1 year of wages and he said it could have gone to the poor. But the truth is, Judas never gave to the poor but stole from Jesus and the common bag. Whereas that alabaster jar story and the woman’s sacrifice ( she was a prostitue
) made it to the halls of every church and bible study. She got to anoint THE Christ in preparation for his death. What a privilege. What an honor. What is money if not spent well and spending on growing God’s congregation and housing his people and stewarding his wealth…is pretty well spent to me.
If we need 500 mil for the poor, we can raise that too…Christians just need to really look hard at how they are stewarding the finances given to them…tithing and giving is our God given privilege.
Hi Wendy
Seems like a priority problem – gratification before service? Look forward to the Law of Unintended Consequences – what a Billion dollar “lifestyle center,” will do for community around Ghim Moh/HV/BV.
An important quote from CS Lewis : ” The safest road to hell is the gradual one– the gentle slope, the soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.”
The “modern” church of Jesus Christ needs more hard teachings, from the Bible ie while emphasiing the love, grace & mercy of God, believers need to be remided the wrath of God, the consequences of sins etc. The shepherds cant do selective teachings.
Dear Dr Wong. I truly appreciate your analysis of the book and this is what I call postive critism. You have pointed out areas where you agree with the author and areas where you have reservations. I thank God for raising Pastors like Joseph Prince who are bold enough to teach what others don’t normally teach. As a human being created by God, he is likely to miss the mark every now and then and he needs people like Dr Wong to raise such issues to point him to the right direction. May the Lord God continue to use Ps Joseph for His Glory. Let’s us be guided by God in whatever we do and wherever we go. I pray that God may grant everyone of us the Spirit of discernment, so that we may know when things are not right. I appreciate and respect everyone’s view point in this regard.
God bless you all.
Rozinna, thanks for that thoughful comment.
The problem with JP is that he mixes human wisdom with the word of God by picking and choosing those so called positive truth so he will not offend men while trying to please God.
He mixes 90% truth with 10% errors. That’s like mixing poison with your favorite drink and drinkers will thank him for that!!!
Wendy Lam wonderful, response to the nay sayer’s about the building of a world class Theatre, which will be generating income to continue to spread the Gospel of “Radical Grace”. Instead of paying monthly rent to the secular world.. we will have even more income to do God’s work, be it in charitable works or spreading His Word.
“Grace is the word”!
To quote Ms Sylvia Lim, MP – “the Golden Rule – He who has the gold rules”
I’m uncomfortable with the idea of using tithes and donations to run a business and then call it a charity. There is something wrong here. I hope churches, especially the rich ones are not using the charities act to do business in the name of charity or vice versa.
It puzzles me that people say this book or that book change their lives but hardly anyone say that Bible change their lives.
Honestly I have never read any book that change my life except the Bible.
Whatever books man write are just books containing some truth and word of God that is already in the Bible.
But they also contain some errors that are not in the Bible. So why not go directly to the pure word of God, The Bible!
I think what people mean is that it’s not this or that book itself that changed their lives, but the Word of God spoken and expounded to them through such books. So in the end is there any difference if the same revelation comes through a thick leather-bound bible or if it comes through a thin paper-back expository? His Word still saves and all glory still goes to God.
But I’m with you that the bible is the complete and primary reference to read about Jesus Christ and His finished work, but in all honesty the bible is not simple plain reading. We can read superficially of course but it is spiritually dense and there are many truths hidden in types and in parables, for the express purpose of secrecy (Jesus himself explained why he spoke in parables). If the bible could be read and understood superficially like a novel then there won’t be as many interpretations as there are verses!
Good for you if the Lord reveals hidden treasures to you as you read scripture, but God can also use preachers and teachers and the letters they write or the words they speak to plainly reveal certain truths hidden in the bible. After all, it was like this since the very beginning of the church, no?
JOHN.3:5 = Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
JOHN.13:5-11 = Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”
…. Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
JOHN.15:3 = “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.”
JOHN.1:33 = I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
IMO,……. In the Bible, obeying Moses Law is usually compared to the cleansing action of water. God gave His laws to the Jews, thru Moses, in order to curb humans’ inborn tendency to commit evil deeds/sins.(DEUT.28:15 & 1-2)
…. The indwelling Spirit is usually compared to the anointing of oil on the forehead.
The ideal path to salvation is for people like the Jews who obeyed Moses Law to believe in JC. Hence, they r born of water n the Spirit.
…. When Gentiles who do not obey Moses Law believe in JC for their salvation, complications arise. They r born of the Spirit but not yet of water. So, they need to be further cleansed by the laws/Word of God b4 they can enter the kingdom of God.
The Jews obeyed Moses Law bc they feared God n His curses.(DEUT.4:10, PROV.1:7) Their fears r from without. Also, they desired to be blessed by God n to go to His heaven. Fear forced them to obey Moses Law. They did not really love God or love His laws in their hearts.
…. It is similar to how most people obey secular govt laws bc they fear the police. During riots, all hell usually breaks loose bc rioters outnumber the police.
In comparison, believers obey the laws of God(esp the moral laws of Moses) bc the indwelling Spirit empowers them to do so, from within their hearts. That is, in their hearts, they really love God and love to obey His laws. This is not done with their own strength, willpower or wisdom. It is not fear from without that drives them to obey God’s laws.(1JOHN.4:18)
If new Gentile believers r ignorant of most of the laws/Word of God, the indwelling Holy Spirit cannot empower them to obey the laws.(HEB.8:10, JOHN.6:63 & 14:26 & 16:15) Being stubbornly ignorant or foolishly deceived or unrepentantly sinning may result in catastrophes bc the wages of sin(law-breaking) is death.(ROM.6:23, 1COR.6:9-11. REV.21:8)
…. Like people say, “Ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
Peace.
IMO,……. First, we hv to know that Moses Law was enforced in the theocratic Jewish kingdom of Israel. The Jews worshiped God in the Holy Temple at Jerusalem. Eg, in Moses Law, adultery was punishable with death by stoning; but now in Singapore, adultery is not illegal.
For modern-day application, new Gentile Christians should know that ACTS.15:29 exempts them from nearly all of Moses Law, so as not to burden them with drastic changes to their lives. This is bc Moses Law does not save people from going to hell; it can only bring earthly blessings from God. I think God gave them a reasonable length of time to change their lives from lawlessness to law-abidingness.(eg 1COR.6:9-11 & 3:1-3)
They r to start their new born-again lives by obeying the 4 simple laws of Moses by being empowered by the indwelling Holy Spirit, ie to abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled n from sexual immorality.
They should use their liberty from Moses Law or the dispensation given by God to learn more about Moses Law bc the indwelling HS can only empower them to obey the laws/Word of God if they know about them.(HEB.8:10 & 10:16)
Eg the kosher food laws of Moses that specified which animals could be eaten. It is unrealistic to expect new GC to totally disrupt their lives by obeying this law. The Holy Scriptures do not require them to do so.
…. At MARK.7:19, Jesus Christ stated that all edible food does not defile a man. It is the evil thoughts that arise from within his evil heart/flesh that defile a man, sending him to hell.
The kosher food laws at LEV.11 actually taught the Jews to avoid behaving like wild animals or evildoers n avoid such company(2COR.6:14), eg lying snakes(with poisonous fangs), murderous tigers, ungrateful/greedy/lazy pigs, blindly loyal dogs, horny rabbits, etc;
n to behave like tame animals or do-gooders n keep such company, eg slow-moving or analytical cows(with 2 stomachs=long digestion/ruminant/chew the cud), cloven-hoofed animals(divide between good n evil), hardworking buffaloes, obedient sheep, peaceful doves, etc.
So, there is no need for new GC to drastically change their eating habits by obeying this law. They only need to know that it intended to teach the Jews to avoid doing evil n to do good, n to socialize likewise. By knowing thus, the indwelling HS will empower them to obey the spirit of this law n not its letter.(ROM.7:6)
…. But ACTS.15:29 still forbids them from eating things offered to idols, things strangled n blood.(LEV.17:11-12)
…. By thus walking according to the Spirit n obeying the food law of God, new GC will receive blessings from God.
It is not profitable if the Jews or new GC obey the kosher food laws but behave like a wild animal, eg commit sexual immorality like a horny rabbit.(Playboy Bunny) Both will still be cursed by God.
It is from both the Old n New Testaments that give true knowledge n wisdom.
P S – The law to honour aged parents(EXO.20:12 – part of the Ten Commandments)) has priority over the law of tithing. Believers hv to first provide for their aged parents b4 they can tithe. If they do not take care of their aged parents, they will die early. Not tithing will only result in less blessings from God.
…. It like the difference between a serious crime n a minor traffic offence.
Peace.
IMO,……. Let me show u the importance of the Word of God in the OT, esp for new Gentile Christians who r mostly clueless about Moses Law.
…. At DEUT.18:9-14, God forbade the Jews from consulting agents of Satan/demons about how to lead their lives. They were to only consult with God’s prophets(agents of God), ie Moses, for such knowledge. DEUT.18:15-19 also prophesied about a great Prophet whom they were required to listen to, ie Jesus Christ.(JOHN.1:21 & 6:14)
In modern-day application, new GC who r Spirit-filled should only consult with God’s prophets/apostles. They can do this thru the Bible which is a written record of ALL the Word of God spoken to God’s prophets/apostles.(2PET.1:21, 2TIM.3:16)
They r not to consult with horoscope, ouija-boards, fortune-tellers, witches/wizards(like Harry Potter), tarot-card readers, palm-readers, psychics, mediums, magicians, bomohs, faith-healers, etc. They should not engage their services to cast love spells, charms or evil hexes on others.
All who break this law of God in Moses Law will be cursed by God. Eg, those who consult(listen n speak to) with fortune-tellers or psychics will hv their speech or hearing impeded, eg stuttering, tongue-tiedness/blocked speech, tinnitus, deafness, etc.(MARK.7:32) Those who engaged bomohs/witches to cast spells or hexes on others will be struck with schizophrenia or severe mental sickness, ie demon-possession.
…. God’s curse is to allow the demons to torment the law-breakers/sinners.(JOB.2:6; Job sinned by trying to buy prosperity insurance from God – v.1:5) God’s curse or punishment is according to His law of ni4ni.(EXO.21:23)
If new GC ignorantly break this law, eg by consulting horoscope or fortune-tellers, they will similarly be cursed by God. They r not exempt. Grace does not give them a license to sin.
…. If they realise their sin n repent, God may withdraw His curse n deliver them thru the blood of JC.(1JOHN.1:9)
…. If they remain in their ignorance or unrepentance, MATT.13:19 may happen to them, ie losing their salvation bc they will forever be tormented n deceived by their demon.
For new GC, having the Holy Spirit but lacking the Word(ie JC) may not be sufficient 4 them to inherit the kingdom of God.(HEB.4:12, MATT.7:24)
…. Most new GC lack the laws/Word of God. They r like powerful rockets that get lost in outer space bc their navigational/guidance system was faulty.
My opinion is based on real life observation. Eg a short n ugly man used charms to mesmerize many pretty young girls into bed. Later he became a schizophreniac. This may be an example of a sin leading to death.(1JOHN.5:16)
It is God’s will for His people to live on earth according to His laws/Word n to believe in JC, so that they won’t get cursed by God n end up going to hell.(1JOHN.3:8 & 5:17-19)
…. Nowadays, many Jews obey God’s laws or Moses Law n r blessed by God. But they reject Jesus as their Christ/Messiah n will end up going to hell.
…. Many new GC ignorantly disobey the laws/Word of God by not learning ALL the Scripture n get cursed by God. They thought that they could live on earth by just relying on their belief in JC(Grace) to get them to heaven. But alas, thru the torments and deceptions of demons/Satan, some of these law-breaking believers may eventually lose their faith.(GAL.5:16-23, 2TIM.3:13)
…. Instead, new GC should use their liberty from Moses Law(ACTS.15:29) to learn asap about righteous living by feeding on the laws/Word of God. Moses Law is a very detailed guide about all aspect of living. In this way, Satan will not be able to steal their seed of salvation from them.
…. There is a limit to God’s tolerance for new GC who ignorantly sin, esp those who continuously sin unrepentantly, ie those who live only on Radical Grace.
Martin Luther, a German, is an example of a 16th century Church leader who lived only on Grace, ignoring the laws/Word of God. When Satan tempted him, he contended with Satan by purposely sinning, in order to prove to Satan his confidence in the saving faith of JC(or Grace). This goes against the teaching of MATT.4:1-11, 1COR.10:13, GAL.6:1 n 1JOHN.3:8. His opinion was that his intentional sins would never cause him to lose his salvation of Grace. (cf HEB.10:26-31)
…. Luther enjoyed drinking wine n partying n often got drunk.(LEV.10:9, EPH.5:18) His heavy drinking caused his early death(around 50 yo), b4 the start of the religious wars between Catholic n Protestant rulers. Maybe the drinking tradition of Oktoberfest in Germany was started by him. The Protestant Reformation was actually a political movement.
…. During the tumult of the Reformation, he married a former Catholic nun, out of pity, n had a few children with her. She was widowed early. She n her young children suffered n died horribly during the religious wars that followed the Reformation.
It’s a surprising fact that Ps Joseph Prince n Benny Hinn both suffered from stuttering. I wonder whether they r aware that their stuttering was caused by the breaking of Moses Law or God’s laws at DEUT.18:9-14.
Peace.
It’s those under law who will have sin as their master not those under grace. The law is perfect and holy, unfortunately we are not no matter how much self effort we put in and will DEFINITELY miss the mark in Gods perfect standards (including the hatred to your own brother who do not agree with your views in this thread is murder in God’s eyes). This is the problem. Under law break one (e.g. Sabbath), you will be subjected to the ALL the curses in Deut 28:15-69.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
@ Blessings.
EPH.6:13-18 = 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with TRUTH, having put on the breastplate of RIGHTEOUSNESS,
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the GOSPEL OF PEACE;
16 above all, taking the shield of FAITH with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17 And take the helmet of SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the WORD OF GOD;
18 praying always with all PRAYER and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—
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IMO,……. Grace or being justified by faith in Jesus Christ for their SALVATION, n not by Moses Law, is just one piece of the equipment in the Armour of God. Christians who only live on Grace, esp Gentile Christians, r poorly equipped to be a soldier of Christ.
The belt of truth holds the breastplate of righteousness in place.
Truth = JOHN.16:13 & 8:31-32 & 8:44.
Righteousness = MATT.5:20, 1JOHN.5:17-19.
Faith = ROM.10:17, GAL.5:22, HEB.12:2.
Word of God = 2TIM.3:16-17, HEB.4:12, JOHN.17:14-15.
Prayer = 1JOHN.5:14, MATT.6:8-13.
The gospel of peace is self-explanatory.
A soldier of Christ can only be able to stand against Satan & his horder of demons if he/she puts on the WHOLE Armour of God.(1PET.5:8, GEN.3:15)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
REV.22:14-15 = “14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
…. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”
Peace.
Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
An example (albeit not a very good one) of the followers of the Christian faith is like this.
Three trains on three different but parallel tracks.
Train A is driven by Moses and Jesus. Destination: Heaven via self righteousness fueled by obedience of laws, rules and regulations and also grace. The plate says “The Wages of Sin is Death/ Saved by Jesus”.
The Christians on this train believe in half-half. These ‘Halfway-Christians’ believe they have to keep the law in order for God to bless them. They ignore the the perfect work of Jesus, they ‘help’ Him with their lives, they keep the law, fail again and again then they run to Jesus.
‘Spiritual adultery’ is what it is called. They are married to two men. ‘Mr. Law’ and ‘Mr. Grace” at the same time. They run back and forth, one minute “self righteousness” next minute “Jesus’ righteousness” when they failed. They are afraid to surrender to Him completely.
In Train A, you have to scoop up your own charcoal to fuel the train. Which is a pity, really, because at the end they’ll find out that the engine is automatic.
Train B is driven by Jesus, destination Heaven via Jesus’ righteousness, fueled by Grace, undeserved, unearned. The plate says “Dead to Sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
On Train B, everything is done and perfected by Jesus. He drives, He performs, He blesses, He died, He gives and He gives.
The people on this train rely on Him totally. His goodness, His mercy, His sacrifice, His love, His forgiveness etc.
They are married to the one and only ‘Mr. Grace’ and are happy, peaceful and joyful. They know they cannot. They know they cannot do anything or be obedient to anything apart from Him. They know they are nothing without Him. They rely on His righteousness to be right with God.
So, they leave all their old ways behind for what they gain through Him is more wonderful and more attractive than anything and everything in the world.
Sometimes they do put their hands of the train to steal their neighbor’s rambutans (hairy fruit) but they pull in a bunch, eat their rambutans but quickly go the Lord. Their lives are dedicated to pleasing the Lord and they submit totally to His righteousness.
So, as they go along they will pull in less and less rambutans as time goes by, not because the law says ‘no stealing’ but because they are so happy and grateful to be in Train B. Their hearts are full of Jesus’ goodness.
That’s when they read His word and listen to preaching to find out what pleases Him and what not and obey Him.
Psalm 18:35
You have given me the shield of your salvation, and your right hand supported me, and your gentleness made me great.
All the under-shepherds should usher their sheep onto Train B.
Train C is driven by Simon Cowell. Destination: Hollywood. The plate says “You are Going to Hollywood! ”
The Christians here may know Jesus and His Grace but they live according their desires. They mislead people into thinking they rely on ‘Jesus’ Grace’ when they sin but they are actually on the wrong train! Jesus’ Grace is on Train B “Dead to sin, Alive to God i.e. the New Creation”.
They are not married but have many husbands.
This world is full of religions of self-righteousness. There is nothing great about them. Their hearts are hard. Their demeanors are cold.
We have the one and only Jesus. Let’s stop ‘helping” Him and let Him shine. All glory and power to Him, our God and our Righteousness.
@Non-Pentecostal
The full Armor of God is something which is given to us believers trough grace/unmerited favor for us to use/wear because God loves us so, and equips us to live in this fallen world. It’s all about receiving from our Lord Jesus and being dependent on His provision and not our self effort. To me the main contrast of Law and Grace is the old (law) is about self effort, and the new (grace) which Jesus came to replace the old with is about God providing abundantly for us through the finished work of His one and only beloved son. The attitude of drawing and drinking from endless and abundant supply from Jesus applies to our entire life as we live on this earth. It is a life of rest and blessedness which bears good fruit, as a result. Self effort is dead works no matter how noble or good the intention is.
@ Blessings.
IMO,……. I agree with u about not relying on self-effort after Grace.
The problem with this book, ‘Destined to Reign’, is that it teaches the doctrine of “once saved, always saved” n borders on being given a license to sin thru Radical Grace. It is presumptuous to say that ALL our future sins hv been forgiven on the day of our salvation. JOHN.3:5 says believers r born-again of water n the Spirit. When people r born-again, they begin life as a spiritual baby. What kind of an adult, he/she will grow up into is anybody’s guess. Only God knows. New born-again believers still hv to contend with their inborn evil flesh/hearts. To say that ‘once saved, always saved’ is a bit presumptuous. The Word of God does not give such guarantees bc man is born with free will. God does not force believers to do His will or obey His Word. Anyway, some Christians hv been recorded as backsliden or converted to other religions/faiths.
…. Christians who hv actually sinned(evil deeds) but thinks they hv not sinned bc they r ignorant of the laws/Word of God won’t be repentant of their sins n seek forgiveness from God. Some will justify their sins as not sins, ie they willingly sinned as a means to an end, which they thought was good, eg King Saul(1SAM.13:13 & 15:22-23)
This teaching of ‘all future sins hv been forgiven on the Cross’ n ‘once saved, always saved’ go against the teaching of Jesus Christ when he taught about His 2nd Coming at MATT.24:32-25:46 n MATT.7:15-23. JC said that there r Christians who will not be saved at His 2nd Coming. Who r they.?
1. JC appoints servants(=pastors) to rule over His household(Church). His evil servant did not give proper food to His household; instead he beats(=burdens) the sheep n indulge in wasteful revelries(GAL.5:21).
2. The evil servant who hid his one n only talent(natural God-given ability) n did not multiply his talent(spread the gospel with his talent).
3. The 5 virgins(law-abiding believers) who did not bring any oil(=Spirit-filled) with their lamps(=True light/the Word) to meet the bridegroom(=JC).
4. Those(lay people) who did not regularly contribute financially to Church work, that provides for pastors, missionaries, church-planting, charities, etc.(MATT.25:31-46)
5. False prophets with Charismatic powers who unrepentantly practice lawlessness or law-breakings, ie who do not walk according to the Spirit but walk according to their evil flesh/hearts n bear the fruits/works of the flesh. This may refer to those who teach about living/walking only on Radical Grace, ignoring the laws/Word of God, eso the moral laws of Moses, n practically use Grace as a license to sin(breaking the laws/Word of God). Such teachings usually lead to lawlessness since it condemns the law n teach the sheep to ignore or confidently break the laws/Word of God.
Hence, ‘once saved is not always saved’ bc “broad is the way that leads to destruction n there r many who go in by it”.(MATT.7:13)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
At JOHN.15:1-7, JC mentioned about the vinedresser(God the Father), the vine(JC) n the branches(believers) who were required to bear fruit(of the Spirit) by abiding in JC thru the Word of God. Those branches that do not bear fruits, the Father prunes or cuts off.
At ROM.11:11-24, Paul further explained that these branches were Jews. This is bc JC preached specifically to His fellow Jews. The branches that bore fruits were Jews who obeyed Moses Law n believed in JC = Jewish Christians. They were branches of a good olive tree(Law n Grace).
…. Those branches that were cut off by God the Father were Jews who obeyed Moses Law but rejected Jesus as their Christ. Even though they obeyed Moses Law, they were not born-again of the Spirit, thus cannot bear the fruits of the Spirit. Most of the Jews rejected JC.
…. Bc these branches had been cut off, wild branches(=wild or lawless Gentiles) of wild olive trees(=without Moses Law) were able to be grafted onto the good olive tree(=JC). These r Gentile Christians.
…. After being grafted, if the wild branches remain wild n did not partake of the root n fatness of the good olive tree, ie abide in the laws/Word of God, they will again be cut-off by the Father bc they do not bear the fruits of the Spirit.
The vine or olive tree is a good n holy tree(v.16). The Law is also good n holy.(ROM.7:12) The Law or Word of God is part of that tree.
Teaching Grace to the exception of the Law is not a sound doctrine, esp for new Gentile Christians. Such a doctrine seems to be easy, burdenless n liberalizing. It’s actually an easy slope to deception.
…. JC’s yoke is easy n His burden is light, only when Gentile Christians r grounded in the laws/Word of God bc JC was talking to His fellow Jews who obeyed Moses Law since their childhood.(MATT.11:30) He was not talking to wild n lawless Gentiles.
It took God many centuries to ‘tame’ the Jews with Moses Law to prepare them for the receiving of His salvation thru Grace. Hence, it won’t be easy for formerly wild n lawless GC to be ‘tamed’ by the laws/Word of God. God’s Spirit has to strive much harder with new GC.(GEN.6:3)
Peace.
Peace.
HEB.10:26-31 = For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
…. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
…. For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”[DEUT.32:35-36]
…. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
1JOHN.3:8 = He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
1JOHN.5:17 = All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
ROM.7:7 = What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, “You shall not covet.”[EXO.20:17]
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
IMO,……. What is sin.? Mostly, sin means evil deeds. Evil deeds r preventable.
…. Sometimes, the Bible refers to sin as having evil/sinful thoughts, which arose from humans’ evil hearts/flesh.(MARK.7:20-23, MATT.5:27-30)
…. Evil thoughts come as temptations(greed, lust, hate, etc), lies, accusations, suspicions, worries, doubts, etc. Sinning in thoughts or having evil/sinful thoughts cannot be prevented bc it’s source comes from the devil. People r advised to resist their evil thoughts(=the devil) by not committing evil deeds.(JAM.4:7)
B4 a man commits adultery, he first unlawfully lusted(hv evil thoughts) at a woman in his heart. Lustful thoughts cannot be prevented but adulterous deeds can be prevented.
…. So, John n Paul mostly referred to sin as evil deeds when they taught believers about righteous living or walking according to the Spirit.(GAL.5:16-23)
Sin is of the devil.(JOHN.8:44) First, Lucifer, 1 of 3 archangels of God, got ambitious n wanted to be like God. He rebelled against God n brought along one-third of the angels with him. So, they became Satan n his demons.(EZE.28:17, ISA.14:12, REV.12:4)
…. When God created humans to replace Satan as His servants, Satan got angry n sabotaged God’s plan. Satan, like a sacked worker, hated God n His humans.
Bc of Adam’s original sin, Satan was able to live in all humans’ hearts/flesh, via the eating of the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge of good n evil. From there, Satan works his evil intentions, which is to destroy humans. He does this by getting them to sin against each other, against their ownself n against God.
…. B4 Christ, Satan was quite confident in his ability to destroy mankind, in order to preserve his rule on earth 4 eternity.
…. Satan likes to be worshiped as god; hence he set up many false religions with idol gods.
God gave the Jews His laws, thru Moses, in order to curb humans’ inborn tendency to commit evil deeds/sins. Moses Law seek to prevent Satan from destroying humans by instilling the fear of God, His curse n His police(or law authorities).
…. So, sin/evil deed is the trademark of the devil. Sin does not just mean ‘missing the mark’.
In Moses Law, only sins/evil deeds/trespasses committed out of ignorance(ie unintentionally) could be atoned by the blood sacrifice of clean animals; = sin n trespass offerings(LEV.4:2 & 5:15 & 17:11). Eg sins via accidents, mistakes, neglect, act of omission, misunderstanding, immaturity, foolishness, etc. Once such unintentional sins had been atoned for, that sinner would be forgiven n the curse of God was passed-over. Of course, it was best 4 the Jews to not commit any sin, even unintentional or willful ones.
Intentional or willful or purposeful sins could not be atoned by blood sacrifice, eg a policeman who breaks the law he was suppose to uphold. For sins that lead to death, such intentional sinners die without mercy if convicted by Moses Law. Eg in Moses time, convicted adulterers were stoned to death; convicted thieves were fined 4 times the value of stolen property; =sin not leading to death.(EXO.22:1)
Similarly, the blood sacrifice of JC, the Lamb of God, could not atone for intentional or willful sins/evil deeds n the curse of God will fall upon that willful sinner.
For Gentiles who were mostly ignorant of Moses Law b4 they converted, the blood of JC is able to atone for all their unintentional sins, done out of ignorance, even for manslaughter, ie they won’t suffer the earthly curses of God for such sins.
…. But once new GC receive the knowledge of the truth, ie about the laws/Word of God, if they knowingly, willfully or intentionally commit sins, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. The blood of JC could not atone for such willful sins. Such sinners can expect the Vengeance of God to come upon them bc God loves, pities n avenges on behalf of the victims of sins/crimes.(GEN.4:10-11) The curse/punishment from God is according to the law of ni4ni.
While suffering the curse of God(eg JOB), if the willful sinners eventually repent, 1COR.5:5 will happen to them, ie Satan will afflict or destroy their flesh but their spirits may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.(LUKE.23:43)
…. But if they remain self-righteous, self-justified n do not repent, 1COR.6:9-11 will most likely happen to them.
So, it is not true that on the day of their salvation, believers hv been forgiven of all their sins, past, present n future, by God on the Cross. Their future intentional or willful sins, if any, will not be forgiven. Such willful sinners will hv to undergo God’s curse/punishment. Eg if a Christian commits murder, he/she will most probably be executed or jailed for life by the secular authorities, even though Moses Law is not in use.
…. COL.2:13 only applies to all unintentional sins done out of ignorance.
The blood of JC only atones 4 all sins done out of ignorance; not for any future intentional sins. New GC may still commit unintentional sins. When they do, the HS will convict them n they can avail themselves of the forgiveness of God at 1JOHN.1:9, escaping His curse. Having learned a lesson, they should not repeat their previous unintentional sin.
…. If new GC commit willful or intentional sins, the laws/Word of God will hv to run its course or curse.
Radical Grace teaches believers, esp new n naive GC, that none of their future sins will result in curses from God or jeopardize their salvation thru Grace, not even 4 their willful or intentional sins, eg even when they intentionally commit adultery or fornication. But in actual fact, their intentional sin will result in curses from God n if after suffering the curses(being chastised -HEB.12:11), they still refuse to repent, they may lose their salvation.(REV.22:14-15)
…. JC has given warning about some Christians who will not be saved at His 2nd Coming.(MATT.24:45-25:1-46, REV.2 & 3) Most likely, they did not repent after they had been cursed by God 4 their willful sins.
Some GC mistakenly think that such curses from God 4 their intentional sins, eg cancer, afflictions, calamities, etc, r a test of their faith, sent by God. N they often quote the story of Job. Actually, Job was afflicted by Satan bc he sinned against God by trying to buy Prosperity Insurance from God for his spoiled sons(JOB.1:5).
…. If, Job’s sons afterwards sin intentionally, God cannot withhold His curses from them. Job was asking God to not curse his sons if in the future they intentionally sin, ie asking God to also spoil his sons like he had done.
Curses from God is according to DEUT.28:15, ie when people willfully break the laws of God, they get cursed. Obey the laws/Word of God = blessings from God(DEU.28:1-2) If Christians live/walk according to the Spirit, they will be blessed by God = no need to be insured against curses/calamities. Buying insurance is against the laws of God. Many Christians, like Job, believe in buying insurance. Like Job, they may get afflicted by God. Continued ignorance of the laws/Word of God is no excuse.
God tests people’s faith with His laws/Word.(EXO.16:4) God does not test people’s faith by sending them curses/afflictions/calamities, for no reason. A good police does not arrest people for no reason.
…. The story of Job is not about God testing people’s faith by sending them curses/afflictions, ie if they persevere n pass God’s test, God would heal them of their affliction.
Peace.
Yes, indeed its a bad eg. Equating obedience to self righteouness, is …. warped , to put it politely. Afterall. the Bible tells us that God prefers obedience to sacrifice. Spiritual adultery ( to quote Dr Li-ann Thio) is commited when we flirt with the world and humanistic world views which leads to luke-warmness and eventually apostasy. There is the fear of the Lord which we must acknowledge, the consequences of sins that must be stressed, etc etc otherwise for eg there need not be a chapter like 1 Cor 5. A full gospel must be presented and Jesus leads by egs by giving hard messages resulting in many leaving him , at a time when he is peak in “popularity and following”. Apostle James wrote a whole book on christian living. Cheers.
Obedience should be a fruit of loving Jesus, rather than a work. When our obedience is a work i.e. a natural result of main focus on moral conditioning/teaching in churches, self righteousness in the church arises. I see this even in my church where primary focus and concern about outward behaviour even tho intentions are noble. This results in “religiosity” even in the small things of how parents and young children should sit/behave in church, and condemnation to young parents who “don’t comply” to standards or expectations of other church members etc..etc. When one’s main focus on self and the outward behaviour, they loose sight the one thing or the important thing.
True Christian living is about having our eyes always focused on Jesus. We will be transformed into Christ’s image when we behold the glory and beauty of Jesus. (2 Cor 3:18).
It’s and not about ourselves and what should we do. In the Bible, we see that when one asks Jesus “what should I do”.. Jesus always replies with “do’s” which is impossible for the person asking to fulfil through self effort.
p.s. On sacrifice vs. obedience, I find 1 Samuel 15:22 beautiful as God was foretelling what Jesus would do through His obedience which pleases God the father.
“For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” Rom 5:19 NKJV
It is precisely because of the failures of the children to Israel to obey the laws that Lord Jesus was sent to us as the fulfillment of it.
If they could not obey after 400 over years (even now, in fact) what chance have we?
Even ‘the man after his own heart’ was not able and failed miserably, how could I?
But if there are a cases of people who successfully obey God on their own, I sincerely do apologise. I wrote based on my own failures to obey God for years and years and condemned myself again and again because of my failures. I really wanted to but was a mess. The more I tried the worse I became (just like Paul).
That is why I welcomed the message of imputed righteousness with open arms.
Now I am free, I thought I’d help others to see that Lord Jesus is the only way out.
However, since there are people who can obey the Lord on their own strength, I guess I’m wrong.
Today, I live righteously not because I ‘decided once and for all’ to obey the laws. The motivation has changed for me. I’m full of Jesus. The Holy Spirit lead and guide my every move. My desire to sin is nearly (not yet) dead
. This is supernatural. I really, really could not obey on my own no matter how hard I try.
The natural dealings or consequence of sins are a certainty no matter which train you’re on.
Thanks for your sharing and praise God for changing you. I am just trying to drive home some impt points eg do not equate obedience with self righteouness. Even if one argues that it is a necessary condition, ( this is debatable ) , it is definitely not a sufficient condition for self righteouness. So equating them is not right . Yes we can caution someone from the danger of being self righteous. Similarly we can caution people agst taking the love, grace and mercy of God for granted and turning it into cheap grace. Also do not be afraid of using the word work/works. We know salavation is not earned and thru grace and faith. So works is not about earning salvation. Work/works and grace are not mutaully exclusive.ie talk work means do understand and appreciate grace and talk grace means no need to work. We cant categorise all works as works of the flesh. In fact one can argue that everything we do is the work of the flesh — a pastor writes and preach a sermon, the bible was written by ordinary men etc The Holy Spirit works through us which can be manifested in works. In fact, when one understands grace fully, one can now go all out to work for christ because one knows ultimately it is the grace of God. That’s why apostle Paul work so hard, he understands grace. Eph tells us that we are created in JC to do good works. Otherwise if the sole objective when God saves us is to gaze our eyes upon him , enjoy his pressence etc then the Lord would have taken us to heaven after conversion. Philipians also tells us to work out our salvation….. So there is no contradiction between works and grace. Its not about doing to earn slavation as it is done. But in our daily walk we do. How do we focus our eyes on Jesus ? We do. We pray, spend time reading God’s word, medidate on his word, fast, serve etc. Many of the blessings promised in the bible are conditional ( the bible is full of it) eg honour the Lord with you wealth ,withe the 1st fruits ….. We do, in this case give/tithe. We need to present the full gospel. For eg i know of many whose lives ( including mine ) are eventually transformed after accepting because they understand the wrath and anger of God, of what he detests eg he hates divorce, who he is biased against ( eg he is very biased against the proud) , the fear of the destructive consequences of sin etc etc. Of course there is the work of the Lord’s love, grace, mercy and power that ultimately transforms us. So lets be balanced and present the full gospel and dont ignore the “small print” like how many investors got in trouble with their finacial investments when the Lehman crisis happens. Just want to lighten up a bit. Cheers & TGIF
@balanced
See URL
link to bloomberg.com
Interesting contrast to your statement –
“……Worship and Holy Communion were followed by a video about a woman who donated on Miracle Seed Sundays even when her husband’s cancer treatments saddled the couple with debt. Images of a Volkswagen and a condominium showed the rewards that came to them for giving….
“As they come forth Lord to sow, release upon them Father the power to get, to create, to receive wealth in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,” Prince said in the rented Rock Auditorium at the Suntec City Mall. “Prosperity is right. Amen. We prosper to prosper others. We prosper to prosper God’s kingdom, so come believing.”
Ahem, hallelujah, PTL and Huat Ah to all…….isn’t this wonderful. No need to read more bible just pray the prayer of Prince
A few qualifications to my writings above.
When I said it was a bad example, I didn’t mean the formulation aspect of it. I thought that was God-inspired and brilliant!
I’m the first to have categorized it so beautifully as I had done, if I may say so myself. Everybody else just argued back and forth as to why the message of Grace cannot be ‘it’ for fear of lawlessness. I have just made it a possibility for all Christians with the inclusion of Train C.
The “badness” of it is because I might not have included “other” trains.
Secondly, is the time between Jesus and Moses is 1300 over years and not 400..sorry.
The apology and the admittance that I was ‘wrong’ above are merely sarcasms (another area I have to resort to impute righteousness
)
Self righteousness, a feeling or display of smug moral superiority derived from one’s ‘ability’ to keep the law, the Pharisees. (Even Jesus had no influence with them).
Lastly, I am able to fulfill (yes, fulfill) the 10 commandments, the Jewish custom laws, the book of James, all sorts of ‘hard teachings’ of Jesus through Jesus Himself. I am for them and not against them. Just the motivation of obedience is different and possible (through Him).
And oh yes, I forgot the famous topic of ‘fear of the Lord’..here goes
1John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
I think we’d all agree there is only one “perfect love”-God’s love. And..
Definition of ‘love’
1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
So the equation is
God loves us,
God’s love is perfect,
Perfect loves cast out fear!!
(another God-inspired moment
)
Synopsis of the new mega church from Bloomberg – PTL and huat ah….
Centuries after Catholics established missions in Asia, Singaporeans are flocking to a new species of churches making appeals more in common with “Material Girl” pop-singer Madonna than the Jesuits. Wearing a white leather jacket and jeans, Senior Pastor Joseph Prince asked God to reward a crowd of about 1,200 with houses, cars, jobs, pay raises and holidays if they contributed to New Creation’s multimillion-dollar funding drive.
check out this link for a 4th-generation methodist’s review and response.
@Balanced
I’m telling you that there is a ‘land’ out there called the ‘new testament promised land’ where there is a rest from works, my friend.
Clearly you have not encountered that land because you still did not get what I’m saying.
Obedience is not possible when life ‘happens’ to you.
Say for instance, you met this ‘hot, knock out of a girl’ at age 25, you have pursued her relentlessly and you got her at the end to marry you at age 26. It was a very good wedding. Both parents were happy. You had a church wedding, flower girls and the works. Everything was great until one day you had a huge argument, she reached for the phone, hit you on the head with it and you needed to go to the hospital for 5 stitches (number of Grace
). That’s the first time.
Second time it happened was when you were having a romantic walk along the beach and all of a sudden you guys started discussing about money issues and she wanted to spend more on her knockout body whilst you wanted to save more for a ‘rainy day’. But since you guys were walking on the beach, all she had in her hands were the 5 inch heels she was wearing on her already long legs. You guessed what happened next. She got angry and hit you on the head with it! Now you have to go to the hospital to get 10 stitches (number of law).
It happened more and more and now you have kids and coming home from work you see your kids “getting it” at as well. Your ‘obedience’ would require you to stay in this marriage. But, you do not want to stay because you’re afraid of every object in the house. What are you going to do? Chain yourself to the gate because you’re afraid of God’s wrath?
If you yourself are struggling with anger issues-can you stop yourself getting angry? Or if you have lust issues, is it possible to ‘will’ yourself not to? I’ve got a student who bought herself a promise ring to the Lord. But every time she fails she takes out the ring and wear it back after it’s over.
That is why the ‘fruit’ of the Spirit is love, peace, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self-control and faithfulness. You cannot conjure up these qualities on your own-No way.
It is not the ‘root’ or even the trunk of the tree itself. It is the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT (the promised land). You cannot ‘get’ it on your own.
Even ’self-control’ is the fruit.
The Holy Spirit has to take over your life so much so that these things manifest supernaturally from within. You cannot walk in the Spirit and in faith as long as you are walking in your own obedience. You cannot rely on your own effort and then claim to rely on the Holy Spirit. These are mutually exclusive. You’ve got to come come to the end of yourself and let the Holy Spirit take over.
Another form of spirit ‘takeover’ is the ‘evil spirit possession’. When the victim is under this form of spirit, she/ he’ll take off their clothes and run all over town. He/ she has no power to stop it.
The life led by the Holy Spirit is the same. The same person who used to swear and cursed bad words now ‘cringed inside and out’ when they hear others swearing. Their desire to sin diminishes supernaturally.
Many has not reached this stage or even recognise it’s existence. I know it exist, walking in it and am ‘labouring to enter into the rest of God’.
Do you know how many Christians are struggling to read the Bible? Praying is a cursory ‘God help me’. How many of us set a time apart to really read His word and enjoy it, speak to Him meaningfully and waiting for Him to answer (especially when English Premier League season is on)? And not feeling condemned if we don’t?
There is no ‘cheap grace’. This term can only be uttered by people who believes in their own obedience. People fully embraced by God’s Grace would place no value on it because it’s impossible. It is the reason for which they are alive.
Nobody’s life is ‘transformed” because they understand God’s wrath and anger of God! People are transformed by ‘unearned, undeserved Grace and God’s goodness’. Example is the rich young ruler who asked Jesus ‘what can I do’ Jesus gave him the law and he walked away disappointed c/f Zaccheus the tax collector where Jesus dealt with him in grace, went to his house, had dinner with Him and he repaid fourfold and gave half of his belongings to the poor.
People who understands God’s anger and wrath are ‘forced’ to obedience. Just like the boy whose father said to him ’sit down’. The boy sat down but in his heart he says ‘yes, but in my heart I’m standing up!’.
Mother Theresa who served and served said something to this effect
“Three months before she accepted her Nobel Peace Prize, she wrote to a spiritual confidant: “Jesus has a very special love for you … [but] as for me, the silence and the emptiness is so great, that I look and do not see, — Listen and do not hear — the tongue moves [in prayer] but does not speak … I want you to pray for me — that I let Him have [a] free hand.”
No, I believe in ‘works’ but it’s got to come from Him. If anything is ‘from’ me, I know it’s going to be a failure.
@Journeyman,
The reason why a congregation of around 20,000 can give 21 million in 24 hours is also supernatural. Those are hearts touched by goodness of God and ‘transformed by Grace’ to build a church. They prosper the church because they themselves had been prospered. How to give SGD21 mil if He first did not prosper them?
Malachi 3:10
New International Version (NIV)
10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.
Nobody gains from this but the church. This church is not under any one person’s name. If you are unhappy with that, it is because you’re unhappy with God and his church.
There is no ‘balance’ or ‘balanced’ in Christianity! The scale is tipped all the way in favour of Jesus Christ. If you even think otherwise, sad to say, you’re still under the old.
Phillipian 2:10
at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
John 15:5
Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. (i.e. you can do NOTHING”, not even one.. apart from Him)
I have closed this comment box as I think enough has been said to represent everyone’s views and enough for anybody who reads all the comments to make up his mind.