Two megachurch pastors
Someone who had been listening to messages of both Joseph Prince of New Creation Church and Kong Hee of City Harvest Church (pastors of the two largest churches in Singapore), made an interesting comment to me.
He said, “When I listen to Joseph Prince, I feel confidence and empowered.” “When I listen to Kong Hee, I feel challenged and want to live for the Lord”.
Marry their preaching strengths
The way he said it made me think: we should marry the two of them. Pastor Joseph Prince is 
great at preaching the indicatives. He loves exalting who Christ is and what He has accomplished for us through His death and resurrection. Pastor Kong Hee, on the other hand is great at preaching the imperatives- what believers can do now that they are in Christ. He is an inspiring 
and persuasive speaker. You inevitably feel motivated about doing whatever he is exhorting you to do: the will of God. All indicatives and no imperatives give rise to under-challenged, passive Christians; and too much imperatives give rise to over-worked, joyless Christians. If the two strengths can be married in regular pastoral preaching and teaching, it will grow Christians who are steadfast and joyful in witness and service.
St Paul’s way
The book of Romans has most of its indicatives in chapters 3-11 and its imperatives in chapters 12-15. St Paul talked about what Christ had accomplished and who we are in Christ, and then went on to show us how then we needed to respond. The pivotal verse was Romans 12: 1,2. “Now that I have talked about the indicatives, here are the imperatives!”(the blogpastor translation). A good balance of indicatives and imperatives informed his letter writing to the churches. This should inform our preaching. The indicatives empower us by inspiring and strengthening our faith, hope and love. The imperatives give direction to our spiritual energies and renewed love.
Wise “one talent” pastors
Even if God may not have given all pastors “five talent” abilities like these two have been given, “one or three talents” pastors can still learn to optimise their effectiveness by preaching the indicatives and imperatives according to the needs of the congregations.
Most churches have been influenced in the past decade to give the people imperatives, or as Martin Luther would call, “Law” messages – what you should do and shouldn’t do as Christians; or moralistic sermons, as others would characterize them. These churches should start preaching more of the indicatives, about what Christ has done for and in us, to redress the imbalance in the past diet.
Great, healthy churches need a wise dosage of indicatives and imperatives.
by Stanley Wong
23 Jun 2010 at 08:15
It is interesting that Paul wrote 9 chapters on the indicatives, more than double the 4 chapters on the imperatives.
It is also interesting that Paul completed the 9 chapters on the indicatives first and then moved on to the imperatives. He did not write 2 chapters on the indicatives and then 1 chapter on the imperatives, and then move on to another 2 chapters on the indicatives and another 1 chapter on the imperatives.
I don’t think it is is a coincidence that Paul completed his writings on the indicatives first before moving on to the imperatives. In the same way, I feel that it is vital for preachers to keep preaching the indicatives until they are fully absorbed into our spirit because the natural instinct in us is to forget the indicatives and pursue the imperatives in our own strength, rather than in God’s strength.
On a personal note, I feel no admiration at all for the preaching of Pastor Kong Hee based on my listening of his antinomianism series and a few other sermons. What I hear is a typical motivation speaker, not a bible teacher because many times, verses are quoted out of context just to give his motivational content a biblical sheen. The day Pastor Prince “marries” Pastor Kong Hee will be the day I leave NCC.
by Stillhaventfound
23 Jun 2010 at 11:13
Writing from Redding, California (in a cheap motel at the heart of the red-light district!), how about inviting a third party to the marriage – Bill Johnson and a demonstration of the power of the Kingdom of God
I was blessed by the recent Asia Conference by City Harvest. Hearing Reinhard Bonnke, Cho Yonggi and being around CHC members stirred something in me. I’m not a great fan of the preaching at CHC, but what I absolutely love is the vision and the passion to reach out and impact lives which pervade the church. That and the opportunities available for members to get involved in touching lives.
New Creation’s messages are second to none. But I haven’t seen a whole lot of intentional reaching out through mobilizing the whole church and many times it doesn’t feel like being part of a local church or community – more of a place for hearing one of the best preachers in the world. Absolutely wonderful feeding.
On another note, I think it’s important to see both indicatives and imperatives in preaching, but probably more importantly, it’s about bringing out that clear relationship between the two. Imperatives can be emphasized in a sermon, but it has to be clearly noted to the audience that these ought to be grounded in the indicatives.
by apostlenaresh
23 Jun 2010 at 15:07
First of all, if two man who is pastor marries, I will definitely leave Singapore, (LOL)
Actually i do understand what you are saying, just crack a joke out of the title.
Secondly, I am from New Creation, I am utterly convinced, there is no way there can be lasting imperatives, without first establishing the indicatives. The Establishment of indicatives produces fruits of imperatives. No longer needed teach anyone about the imperatives ( Heb 8:10-11 ) it is no longer what we can do for God, it’s all about What GOD had DONE. The fruit of the indicatives are the imperatives at action not just talk.
It’s impossible to marry the teaching of Pastor Kong and Pastor Prince together.
(Matt 9:16-17).
If this happen, the whole Singapore would produce CONFUSED Christians. and they will be in Mega in numbers.
God has special purpose in raising leader for definite time like this. And the people belonging to the churches are called for a special calling.
You know that we are all the different member of the Lord’s body. the kind of teaching the Hand and Leg ( Mission and Charity) need to hear would not be the kind of teaching the Heart and Mind(Theology and Love) need to hear. The Kind of teaching the other members of the body need is different. Each according to their purpose of existence.
So whether CHC or NCC or Pastor Kong or Pastor Prince, Please let us not create division or try to unite them. Different purpose of existence.
1 Corinthians 3: 1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
by Zoe
23 Jun 2010 at 17:15
Frankly, I don’t really like the terms “indicatives” and “imperatives” for the simple reason that it’s a man-made term not found in the Word. It suggests that the grace message that Pastor Prince preaches strongly on and is criticized for are only “indicatives”. It is a light-weight word that does not do justice to the importance of doctrine. It is crucial that the truth of the new covenant that Jesus died to give us be preached accurately.
The ideal message coming from the pulpit is not a matter of the preacher’s skill or the congregation’s feelings.
With regard to content then, assuming that Pastor Kong still stands by his antinomianism series, it is impossible for them to ‘marry’ because Pastor Prince preaches ‘radical’ grace. (I put ‘radical’ in inverted commas only because this term is relative. If one has been taught justification by works, the message from Pastor Prince would seem ‘radical’)
Every message that comes from the pulpit (regardless of church) has only to fulfill 2 criteria for me. It exalts my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and boasts in the perfection and completeness of His finished work at the cross. Nothing more, nothing less.
One would think that it’s obvious that in church every Sunday, Jesus Christ would be preached. But from what I understand, many messages would often center on the roles and responsibilities of being a Christian.
But “we love because He first loved us”. When we know how much we are loved, we are able to do the works out of love for Him rather than out of duty of being a Christian.
That is why pastors don’t have to give a motivational speech, or play the guilt card for believers to do good works. Give us a message that causes us to come to know personally, the love of Christ, to fall in love with Him, and the fruits will naturally follow.
No, we don’t need a “balance” diet at New Creation Church. Just show me Jesus in the Word, in Genesis, Leviticus, in the prophets, hidden in the names, in the Hebrew, in the Greek, in typology.. tell me again about the finished work, about the blood, about the perfection of His laws and His abundant grace, about the worthy Lamb of God…
by Steven Siau
23 Jun 2010 at 17:27
Luke 24:27 Jesus explained through all the scriptures, things concerning himself.
As far as I see the situation among Christians, most read the bible and interprete it depending on the reader’s
perspective and need at that point.
Most preachers take a passage and highlight certain truths and principles depending on their preaching objectives while filling up most part of their messages with illustrations or stories etc.
I like the fact that JP makes every attempt to reveal and points us to Jesus whether in old or new testament Since the bible was written to reveal to us all about Jesus.
So whether is pastor A or Z, whether one or ten talents, whether one is preaching about God’s beloved or the great commission, preacher should base and focus his message on the centrality of Christ; bring back Jesus to the center-stage.
by Peggy
23 Jun 2010 at 18:32
Hi BlogPastor,
Sorry, I cannot agree with Ps Prince Marrying Ps Kong.
Like what other NCCians have mentioned, it is the preaching of Jesus Christ and His finished work that cause us to fall in love with Jesus because His Work at the Cross cries out about His love for us.
And it is going to be out of that overflow of His love for us that we are secured of His Supply of Grace to enable us to work.
Why do I state so?
Because when I am secured in His love for me, His Beloved, I can TRUST in Him with all my heart is to believe that He will SUPPLY to us in our situations, our needs, our areas of lack, our wants, our desires … (Sound like an Indicative?)
But if I am asked to Love Him with ALL my heart… (An Imperative? Like Ps Kong’s latest post to CHC) that’s a totally different story altogether. Then I place myself in a position where I see His DEMANDs of me and I have to work to fulfill those demands.
Given the Choice, I choose to TRUST in Him, in His ability, in His willingness, in His Love to SUPPLY to me.
Then, I find it easy to love, to give, to work… simply because I see His supply and not the lack. (yeah, sounds like Ps Prince’s message but it is only recently, do I get a fresh revelation. )
by Peggy
23 Jun 2010 at 18:40
Sorry for having paraphrased Ps Kong’s words unknowingly and without any citation.
Ps Kong’s exact words were
“What is the City Harvest DNA? In essence, it is the message of the Cross — “loving God wholeheartedly and loving people fervently” (Matt. 22:37-40) ”
taken from Ps Kong Hee’s post on 18 June 2010.
http://www.konghee.com/www/2010/06/reflections/
by Charlie L
23 Jun 2010 at 19:53
Paul Washer
by Tim
23 Jun 2010 at 20:13
First of all, a shout out to SHF in the USA. Good to hear from you on Blogpastor’s blog!
Second, apostlenaresh, that joke you made on leaving Singapore had me guffawing away, haha.
Anyway, back to the discussion proper…
I’ve been pondering about this for awhile, asking God if there is something more to the Gospel of grace in Jesus Christ that many of us here have come to associate as the core focus of NCC.
A word keeps coming back to me – intentionality.
Maybe the a good way to explain intentionality is to see the transformation of Isaiah after he saw the Lord sitting on His throne. His life after this was very intentional, with a specific call.
We see intentionality all over the Bible. Jesus was fully confident in His Father’s love, yet He came with an intent.
I am going to say the following with some confidence. Just as how the 120 waited upon the Lord in the Upper Room and were released, I believe there will come a time when the Holy Spirit will move NCC and/or its members into a season where intentionality to see the call and purposes of God fulfilled will be very strong.
Would like to add a different point regarding NCC and CHC, but maybe later.
Shalom!
by Marcus
23 Jun 2010 at 22:54
I pray that churches in Singapore itself can embrace one another as one body of Jesus Christ as how God loves us.
Eph. 4:4-5 – There is one body and one Spirit – Just as you were called to one hope when you were called – one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
by Journeyman
24 Jun 2010 at 07:04
Often wondered if we are reading and studying from the same Book. Seems to me the competition to be “more right” or prove one is slightly less broken than our Neighbour is the imperative.
Is there a point to attending church for this indicative outcome?
Technically competent Christians devoid of humanity and neighbourly love – what a nighmare.
by Jason
24 Jun 2010 at 15:20
I am not from chc or affiliated to them in any way but pls dun compare kong hee with jp.I find kong hee a much better preacher than jp and i dun think jp is a good preacher at all hands down
by kengstp
24 Jun 2010 at 15:53
I used to listen to CHC webcast on Sunday afternoons after church some years ago. I was motivated, esp after a so-so sermon in church. But when my sister passed me some JP’s cds… I never looked back. It’s not about style, delivery or oratory skills… it’s about the scriptures being opened up and Jesus revealed.
In response to SHF, while NCC is not intentional about mobilizing the entire congregation etc I dare say everyone I know from NCC is personally intentional about sharing Jesus!
Btw, I am not from NCC, not even from Spore.
Shalom.
by apostlenaresh
24 Jun 2010 at 17:26
Jason .. you are missing the Point, it’s not JP or Kong Hee, it’s their Lord they are preaching ….
Jesus is the Hero here, let’s look at him and him Alone, He raise JP and He raise Kong Hee… it he who died .. it is he who was raise up .. neither JP or Kong Hee died for anybody’s sin … and i believe even JP and Kong Hee agree to what i am saying
by Gentle lamb
24 Jun 2010 at 19:22
One can attend City Harvest first, say for five years to learn about faith, and then the rest of life in New Creation to not only learn about Grace and mercy, but to live it.
I guess, we do not have same sex marriage yet in Singapore, so it is just a good thought of both of them getting married.
by Steven Siau
24 Jun 2010 at 22:52
Hi Peggy, I’d like to respond to your points regarding God’s Supply and Demand. See if my points bring any encouragement to you.
Also to blogpastor, I find their meaning corresponds to your term ‘indicatives’ and ‘imperatives’ respectively. However, I see some problems in trying to filter the word to fit into one of these two boxes.
Problem 1 – all of us would embrace the ‘indicatives’ (supply) but put off by the term ‘imperatives’ if we see it as a demand imposed upon us.
Problem 2 – is it that Grace applies only to ‘indicatives’ and nothing to do with imperatives?
Problem 3 – which part is supply (indicative) and which is imperative (demand) in the verses
– Is it easier to say,’your sins are forgiven’ or to say, ’stand up and walk’? (my answer would be in both sentences, God is supplying Grace even though the part ’stand up and walk’ sound like a demand (imperative)
- Does it sound like a demand (imperative) to give Jesus your 5 loaves and 2 fishes if you knew that He will multiplied them into thousands?
- Does it sound like a demand (imperative) when Apostle Paul uses words like beseech, plead, urge us to live our lives more abundantly from Romans 12 and not you must or thou shall?
So for me, Romans 3-11 is about ‘your sins are forgiven’ and Romans 12-15 is about God empowering us to ’stand up and walk!’
It helps me when I see both are God’s grace and power supply for us to live wholesome life to the fullest and not as a demand.
-
by jamie soo
25 Jun 2010 at 20:34
I learnt not to judge them by their weaknesses and learn from them, their weakness, not to do it or repeat in my own walk in life as well as from their strengths, I can apply it in my life and the most important is to accept them as they are God’s anointed. We keep them in prayer always and that being forgiving and loving, God will bless us even more. I will listen with an open heart. =)
God Bless~
by jacktan
25 Jun 2010 at 21:24
i wonder what can fans of Ps KH learn from his teaching??Take a look at his blog entries on ‘tattoo’.http://konghee.blogspot.com/search/label/What%20About%20Tattoos%3F.
If anyone agree with his teaching that tattoo is fine, look at Todd Bentley ,a minister who tattoo his body after his conversion.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykYWajsWgiQ.
Sometimes , common sense tell you whats right ,and what wrong.
by blogpastor
27 Jun 2010 at 15:44
Looks like there are those who disapprove of this marriage and will not attend the wedding. One “ungracious” comment even had to be disapproved – whatever happened to civil debate? Equally there are those who feel one of the partners are too short.
Nevertheless the solemnization will go ahead despite the objections because it is right and biblical. Not the “same sex” thingy of course.
St Paul was the greatest exponent of radical grace. Yet his letters to the churches were graced with commands, exhortations, instructions that usually had their basis in what Christ has done. He preached for a year and a half in the Corinthian church, and the saints there did not spontaneously, automatically live holy. They had rivers of living water but no irrigation canals. He still had to exhort them, command them, instruct them: so the revival they had experienced would be channeled aright and the ground would be fruitful.
My conviction stands firm: due to neglect of indicatives, most churches need to preach indicative-rich messages intensively and extensively till the congregations’ faith, hope and love are revived.
Do you…? “Yes I do” Do you….? “Yes I do”. By the power invested in me, I hearby declare you, indicatives and imperatives, husband and wife. What God has put together let no man put asunder!(clap, clap)
by PP
27 Jun 2010 at 21:59
Hmm… well, we have 4 gospels in the New Testament but we would never think of marrying all four of them (Mathew+Mark+Luke+John). The authors were giving their testimonies from four perspectives, 4 different background. And we do not examine the 4 gospels like the way blogpastor had examined JP and KH.
It is not about the pastors’ strength in imperatives or indicatives or whatever, as long as they let God uses them, their messages will reach to the masses and touch the hearts of people in this fallen world. By the way, God always uses the weakest thing or people to manifest his work . We should not even talk about pastors being “great at preaching” certain messages. Pastors’ “greatness” and “strengths” are from our one and only God.
Blogpastor, we should focus on God and Jesus’s finished work. We should not focus on the pastors like the two that you mentioned here.
I am a member from NCC and by hearing the Grace of God and Jesus’ love time after time again, I am overwhelmed by Jesus love. So the imperatives come natural to me because I love Jesus very much and I am doing outreach so naturally without trying hard. I am telling people about Jesus every other day.
by apostlenaresh
28 Jun 2010 at 08:50
agree totally with PP .. Blogpastor … I want to know when you say ” yes i do” who say it first ? hahaha .. really curios .. is it JP or KH, want to know Grace over Law ? or Law over Grace … who decided to get married with who.
What Man call Balance; God looks at it as Mixture. we need different people for different ministries. We can’t integrate them.. i like your noble ideas of integrating them, i use to wonder what would be like if they work together in Singapore.
But for a thought, i think, it’s better they work in different direction. Each according to their talent.
you know the story of the servant with 5,3,1 talents. Well the one with the 5 talent, did differently than the 3 talents, but the master was pleased with both.
Let God alone be the Judge, he doesn’t make mistake. Everyone exist for the calling they have been called, come to the initial point, it is all about Jesus,
and MARRYING TO JESUS that’s what matter
…
by andrewong2024
28 Jun 2010 at 21:40
Hi blogpastor,
I know where you’re coming from and I agree you on observation of their “marriage”.
Personally, I do listen to both of their sermons regularly and benefit from both too. Somehow it becomes more complete with one “loving God” and the other “loving people”. I think you know what I mean =)
by Joseph
30 Jun 2010 at 21:47
Pastor Joseph Prince has books that have impacted many lives all over the world.
by Harry
20 Jul 2010 at 00:14
I have a few series of Pr Kong Hee and Pr Joseph Prince teaching..After reading/hearing to their teaching i conclude that:
Pr KH : something wrong with me coz i didint do anything..
Pr JP : something right with me coz of Jesus and i feel secured..
by CK Chan
21 Jul 2010 at 10:40
Heavenly and Earth are full of HIS Glory! , however we sinners full of sins and blinded by His Glory.
Whatever it is , just be still and know He is GOD.
Deo Gratias!
by Simon Loh
22 Jul 2010 at 10:25
Hi all.
I’m new to this site and i worship at CHC.
I think the point is not in marrying the different styles, but wouldn’t it be great if the 2 churches work together to fulfil His work on earth? Just like some are called to be prophets, some evangelists, and others church builders etc, i think some churches are called to preach the indicatives, and some the imperatives.
So instead of debating which is better, what if we all decide to come together as one body with many parts? And reach out to different people, but with the same Love. Wow.
Collectively, we will be a powerhouse movement that will shake Asia. And rock the world.
Hey, i thot that was the original plot 2000 yrs ago, rite..?
by Keith Ong
22 Jul 2010 at 11:25
Mr Simon Loh,
Do you know lots of Christains do not walk the talk and they are just comfortable with those people they love to be with.
What togetherness as one body, with many parts and reach out to different people, with same love, WHAT RUBBISH!
They are only a bunch of Hypocrite!, only thinking for themselves.
Stop dreaming, instead to shake Asia and rock the World , wait for the second coming of Christ to shake them off and to save the World.
by Novie
06 Aug 2010 at 16:56
It makes me sad whenever I see/hear/read one believer/God’s servant critizes another Christian/God’s servant in public. We are one family. Everyone has different talent and tasks to do. It will be better if we unite, embrace one another, encourage and support one another to fulfill our destiny.
by Joel
09 Aug 2010 at 18:42
I feel this post, right from the start, is already out of point. Why in the world are we comparing the ‘effectiveness’ of these pastors? These pastors are given different talents and visions in this world, to impact different groups of people. Why are we so fixed upon discussing/debating the pros and cons of them? Yet being blind to the the true purpose of our existence as christians? We are after all a Body of Christ. Not so-called “fans of Joseph Prince” or “Followers of Kong Hee”.
We are in no position to criticise their ways of imparting the gospel into followers of Christ. Doesn’t the Word of God teach us to not judge? But to LOVE one another?
If you truly want a pastor who is fully committed into preaching the gospel in a way you would like to hear it, well I have two options for you. One, rise up and be that pastor of your own wishes. Or two, pray for it. The bible does say “ask and you will receive”.
So thank you, and please stop commenting on pastors’ style or talents.
by PP
10 Aug 2010 at 06:39
Hi Joel, we have never met but I agree with you. We cannot stop others from being judgemental, they are not interested in hearing our defence.
Christ came to save sinners, those who are willing to come to the end of themselves and let Christ to pay for their sins, for example, the hypocrites, and people who think of only themselves. One good example is Zacchaeus the tax collector,
Did Jesus tell him “You Zacchaeus breached the 8th Commandment – Thou shall not steal. ”
Of course not! Jesus told him to come down from the tree and he would like to eat at his house, what an abundant Grace!!!
Keith Ong mentioned “What togetherness as one body, with many parts and reach out to different people, with same love, WHAT RUBBISH!”
For it is written, Romans 12:5 “so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.” Romans was written by Apostle Paul. Are you calling it rubbish? Even if you do, I will not judge you.
by loveGOD
11 Sep 2010 at 11:57
Anyone who believes that everything that those pastors preach and teach are absolute truth truly needs to grow up.
If you have stay in the same church for more than a decade, you will realize they will never touch on or deliberately avoid or drop any bible context or verses that contradicts how and what they want to protray the message they want it to be. Of course, they are still many blind ones, still idolizing a pastor for decades.
The word. ‘GOD’ is indeed a word most manipulated by people, especially church pastors.
by trulytruly
22 Nov 2010 at 12:13
Divorce in NCC – Pastor Joshua Lee resigned – reasons stated in the NCC website – you think that’s the real reason?
by bonsoir
26 Nov 2010 at 16:05
Hi Truly Truly,
Pastor Joshua have been faithfully serving for nearly 27 years…since inception of NCC.
so let’s just cut him some slack ya…
I am from NCC, but whatever the reasons? i am sure he and God will have their own time to “talk” things through like all of us ya…
I bid you ShalomShalom
by trulytruly
30 Nov 2010 at 11:18
Yes, a great idea to marry the 2 pastors.
One is direct and aggressive in asking for money.
The other is subtle and crafty in doing the same.
That really strikes a balance.
Thank GOD our good government shows the public a wake up call as to some of these churches are doing ( the churches leaders actually are the culprits – godly, manly and devillish – all 3 in 1).
In the name of GOD, they do good deeds, they preach and teach good things, and at the same time, the devilish dishonest side also come into play.
Therefore, in GOD we trust 100%. Charismatic pastors – becareful!
by Journeyman
03 Dec 2010 at 09:18
sex, money and religion – what else do you need for an exciting life?
by Bonjalo
30 Oct 2011 at 14:44
I’m not for either of them… i don’t enjoy their preaching… cause there’re alot of repeat and repeat message…. it’s back to square one…