Marrying Joseph Prince with Kong Hee
Two megachurch pastors
Someone who had been listening to messages of both Joseph Prince of New Creation Church and Kong Hee of City Harvest Church (pastors of the two largest churches in Singapore), made an interesting comment to me.
He said, “When I listen to Joseph Prince, I feel confidence and empowered.” “When I listen to Kong Hee, I feel challenged and want to live for the Lord”.
Marry their preaching strengths
The way he said it made me think: we should marry the two of them. Pastor Joseph Prince is 
great at preaching the indicatives. He loves exalting who Christ is and what He has accomplished for us through His death and resurrection. Pastor Kong Hee, on the other hand is great at preaching the imperatives- what believers can do now that they are in Christ. He is an inspiring 
and persuasive speaker. You inevitably feel motivated about doing whatever he is exhorting you to do: the will of God. All indicatives and no imperatives give rise to under-challenged, passive Christians; and too much imperatives give rise to over-worked, joyless Christians. If the two strengths can be married in regular pastoral preaching and teaching, it will grow Christians who are steadfast and joyful in witness and service.
St Paul’s way
The book of Romans has most of its indicatives in chapters 3-11 and its imperatives in chapters 12-15. St Paul talked about what Christ had accomplished and who we are in Christ, and then went on to show us how then we needed to respond. The pivotal verse was Romans 12: 1,2. “Now that I have talked about the indicatives, here are the imperatives!”(the blogpastor translation). A good balance of indicatives and imperatives informed his letter writing to the churches. This should inform our preaching. The indicatives empower us by inspiring and strengthening our faith, hope and love. The imperatives give direction to our spiritual energies and renewed love.
Wise “one talent” pastors
Even if God may not have given all pastors “five talent” abilities like these two have been given, “one or three talents” pastors can still learn to optimise their effectiveness by preaching the indicatives and imperatives according to the needs of the congregations.
Most churches have been influenced in the past decade to give the people imperatives, or as Martin Luther would call, “Law” messages – what you should do and shouldn’t do as Christians; or moralistic sermons, as others would characterize them. These churches should start preaching more of the indicatives, about what Christ has done for and in us, to redress the imbalance in the past diet.
Great, healthy churches need a wise dosage of indicatives and imperatives.
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It is interesting that Paul wrote 9 chapters on the indicatives, more than double the 4 chapters on the imperatives.
It is also interesting that Paul completed the 9 chapters on the indicatives first and then moved on to the imperatives. He did not write 2 chapters on the indicatives and then 1 chapter on the imperatives, and then move on to another 2 chapters on the indicatives and another 1 chapter on the imperatives.
I don’t think it is is a coincidence that Paul completed his writings on the indicatives first before moving on to the imperatives. In the same way, I feel that it is vital for preachers to keep preaching the indicatives until they are fully absorbed into our spirit because the natural instinct in us is to forget the indicatives and pursue the imperatives in our own strength, rather than in God’s strength.
On a personal note, I feel no admiration at all for the preaching of Pastor Kong Hee based on my listening of his antinomianism series and a few other sermons. What I hear is a typical motivation speaker, not a bible teacher because many times, verses are quoted out of context just to give his motivational content a biblical sheen. The day Pastor Prince “marries” Pastor Kong Hee will be the day I leave NCC.
Writing from Redding, California (in a cheap motel at the heart of the red-light district!), how about inviting a third party to the marriage – Bill Johnson and a demonstration of the power of the Kingdom of God
I was blessed by the recent Asia Conference by City Harvest. Hearing Reinhard Bonnke, Cho Yonggi and being around CHC members stirred something in me. I’m not a great fan of the preaching at CHC, but what I absolutely love is the vision and the passion to reach out and impact lives which pervade the church. That and the opportunities available for members to get involved in touching lives.
New Creation’s messages are second to none. But I haven’t seen a whole lot of intentional reaching out through mobilizing the whole church and many times it doesn’t feel like being part of a local church or community – more of a place for hearing one of the best preachers in the world. Absolutely wonderful feeding.
On another note, I think it’s important to see both indicatives and imperatives in preaching, but probably more importantly, it’s about bringing out that clear relationship between the two. Imperatives can be emphasized in a sermon, but it has to be clearly noted to the audience that these ought to be grounded in the indicatives.
First of all, if two man who is pastor marries, I will definitely leave Singapore, (LOL)
Actually i do understand what you are saying, just crack a joke out of the title.
Secondly, I am from New Creation, I am utterly convinced, there is no way there can be lasting imperatives, without first establishing the indicatives. The Establishment of indicatives produces fruits of imperatives. No longer needed teach anyone about the imperatives ( Heb 8:10-11 ) it is no longer what we can do for God, it’s all about What GOD had DONE. The fruit of the indicatives are the imperatives at action not just talk.
It’s impossible to marry the teaching of Pastor Kong and Pastor Prince together.
(Matt 9:16-17).
If this happen, the whole Singapore would produce CONFUSED Christians. and they will be in Mega in numbers.
God has special purpose in raising leader for definite time like this. And the people belonging to the churches are called for a special calling.
You know that we are all the different member of the Lord’s body. the kind of teaching the Hand and Leg ( Mission and Charity) need to hear would not be the kind of teaching the Heart and Mind(Theology and Love) need to hear. The Kind of teaching the other members of the body need is different. Each according to their purpose of existence.
So whether CHC or NCC or Pastor Kong or Pastor Prince, Please let us not create division or try to unite them. Different purpose of existence.
1 Corinthians 3: 1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
Frankly, I don’t really like the terms “indicatives” and “imperatives” for the simple reason that it’s a man-made term not found in the Word. It suggests that the grace message that Pastor Prince preaches strongly on and is criticized for are only “indicatives”. It is a light-weight word that does not do justice to the importance of doctrine. It is crucial that the truth of the new covenant that Jesus died to give us be preached accurately.
The ideal message coming from the pulpit is not a matter of the preacher’s skill or the congregation’s feelings.
With regard to content then, assuming that Pastor Kong still stands by his antinomianism series, it is impossible for them to ‘marry’ because Pastor Prince preaches ‘radical’ grace. (I put ‘radical’ in inverted commas only because this term is relative. If one has been taught justification by works, the message from Pastor Prince would seem ‘radical’)
Every message that comes from the pulpit (regardless of church) has only to fulfill 2 criteria for me. It exalts my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and boasts in the perfection and completeness of His finished work at the cross. Nothing more, nothing less.
One would think that it’s obvious that in church every Sunday, Jesus Christ would be preached. But from what I understand, many messages would often center on the roles and responsibilities of being a Christian.
But “we love because He first loved us”. When we know how much we are loved, we are able to do the works out of love for Him rather than out of duty of being a Christian.
That is why pastors don’t have to give a motivational speech, or play the guilt card for believers to do good works. Give us a message that causes us to come to know personally, the love of Christ, to fall in love with Him, and the fruits will naturally follow.
No, we don’t need a “balance” diet at New Creation Church. Just show me Jesus in the Word, in Genesis, Leviticus, in the prophets, hidden in the names, in the Hebrew, in the Greek, in typology.. tell me again about the finished work, about the blood, about the perfection of His laws and His abundant grace, about the worthy Lamb of God…
Luke 24:27 Jesus explained through all the scriptures, things concerning himself.
As far as I see the situation among Christians, most read the bible and interprete it depending on the reader’s
perspective and need at that point.
Most preachers take a passage and highlight certain truths and principles depending on their preaching objectives while filling up most part of their messages with illustrations or stories etc.
I like the fact that JP makes every attempt to reveal and points us to Jesus whether in old or new testament Since the bible was written to reveal to us all about Jesus.
So whether is pastor A or Z, whether one or ten talents, whether one is preaching about God’s beloved or the great commission, preacher should base and focus his message on the centrality of Christ; bring back Jesus to the center-stage.
Hi BlogPastor,
Sorry, I cannot agree with Ps Prince Marrying Ps Kong.
Like what other NCCians have mentioned, it is the preaching of Jesus Christ and His finished work that cause us to fall in love with Jesus because His Work at the Cross cries out about His love for us.
And it is going to be out of that overflow of His love for us that we are secured of His Supply of Grace to enable us to work.
Why do I state so?
Because when I am secured in His love for me, His Beloved, I can TRUST in Him with all my heart is to believe that He will SUPPLY to us in our situations, our needs, our areas of lack, our wants, our desires … (Sound like an Indicative?)
But if I am asked to Love Him with ALL my heart… (An Imperative? Like Ps Kong’s latest post to CHC) that’s a totally different story altogether. Then I place myself in a position where I see His DEMANDs of me and I have to work to fulfill those demands.
Given the Choice, I choose to TRUST in Him, in His ability, in His willingness, in His Love to SUPPLY to me.
Then, I find it easy to love, to give, to work… simply because I see His supply and not the lack. (yeah, sounds like Ps Prince’s message but it is only recently, do I get a fresh revelation. )
Dont kid yourself about anyone pastor because to idolise any pastor you have forsaken God. You should only look towards God and not a pastor.
Paul LA, I absolutely agree with you !!!
Peggy’s not idolizing Pastor Prince. Read carefully before stating such an irrational comment, please. Thanks.
Sorry for having paraphrased Ps Kong’s words unknowingly and without any citation.
Ps Kong’s exact words were
“What is the City Harvest DNA? In essence, it is the message of the Cross — “loving God wholeheartedly and loving people fervently” (Matt. 22:37-40) ”
taken from Ps Kong Hee’s post on 18 June 2010.
link to konghee.com
Paul Washer
First of all, a shout out to SHF in the USA. Good to hear from you on Blogpastor’s blog!
Second, apostlenaresh, that joke you made on leaving Singapore had me guffawing away, haha.
Anyway, back to the discussion proper…
I’ve been pondering about this for awhile, asking God if there is something more to the Gospel of grace in Jesus Christ that many of us here have come to associate as the core focus of NCC.
A word keeps coming back to me – intentionality.
Maybe the a good way to explain intentionality is to see the transformation of Isaiah after he saw the Lord sitting on His throne. His life after this was very intentional, with a specific call.
We see intentionality all over the Bible. Jesus was fully confident in His Father’s love, yet He came with an intent.
I am going to say the following with some confidence. Just as how the 120 waited upon the Lord in the Upper Room and were released, I believe there will come a time when the Holy Spirit will move NCC and/or its members into a season where intentionality to see the call and purposes of God fulfilled will be very strong.
Would like to add a different point regarding NCC and CHC, but maybe later.
Shalom!
I pray that churches in Singapore itself can embrace one another as one body of Jesus Christ as how God loves us.
Eph. 4:4-5 – There is one body and one Spirit – Just as you were called to one hope when you were called – one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Often wondered if we are reading and studying from the same Book. Seems to me the competition to be “more right” or prove one is slightly less broken than our Neighbour is the imperative.
Is there a point to attending church for this indicative outcome?
Technically competent Christians devoid of humanity and neighbourly love – what a nighmare.
I am not from chc or affiliated to them in any way but pls dun compare kong hee with jp.I find kong hee a much better preacher than jp and i dun think jp is a good preacher at all hands down
I used to listen to CHC webcast on Sunday afternoons after church some years ago. I was motivated, esp after a so-so sermon in church. But when my sister passed me some JP’s cds… I never looked back. It’s not about style, delivery or oratory skills… it’s about the scriptures being opened up and Jesus revealed.
In response to SHF, while NCC is not intentional about mobilizing the entire congregation etc I dare say everyone I know from NCC is personally intentional about sharing Jesus!
Btw, I am not from NCC, not even from Spore.
Shalom.
Jason .. you are missing the Point, it’s not JP or Kong Hee, it’s their Lord they are preaching ….
Jesus is the Hero here, let’s look at him and him Alone, He raise JP and He raise Kong Hee… it he who died .. it is he who was raise up .. neither JP or Kong Hee died for anybody’s sin … and i believe even JP and Kong Hee agree to what i am saying
One can attend City Harvest first, say for five years to learn about faith, and then the rest of life in New Creation to not only learn about Grace and mercy, but to live it.
I guess, we do not have same sex marriage yet in Singapore, so it is just a good thought of both of them getting married.
Hi Peggy, I’d like to respond to your points regarding God’s Supply and Demand. See if my points bring any encouragement to you.
Also to blogpastor, I find their meaning corresponds to your term ‘indicatives’ and ‘imperatives’ respectively. However, I see some problems in trying to filter the word to fit into one of these two boxes.
Problem 1 – all of us would embrace the ‘indicatives’ (supply) but put off by the term ‘imperatives’ if we see it as a demand imposed upon us.
Problem 2 – is it that Grace applies only to ‘indicatives’ and nothing to do with imperatives?
Problem 3 – which part is supply (indicative) and which is imperative (demand) in the verses
– Is it easier to say,’your sins are forgiven’ or to say, ‘stand up and walk’? (my answer would be in both sentences, God is supplying Grace even though the part ‘stand up and walk’ sound like a demand (imperative)
- Does it sound like a demand (imperative) to give Jesus your 5 loaves and 2 fishes if you knew that He will multiplied them into thousands?
- Does it sound like a demand (imperative) when Apostle Paul uses words like beseech, plead, urge us to live our lives more abundantly from Romans 12 and not you must or thou shall?
So for me, Romans 3-11 is about ‘your sins are forgiven’ and Romans 12-15 is about God empowering us to ‘stand up and walk!’
It helps me when I see both are God’s grace and power supply for us to live wholesome life to the fullest and not as a demand.
-
I learnt not to judge them by their weaknesses and learn from them, their weakness, not to do it or repeat in my own walk in life as well as from their strengths, I can apply it in my life and the most important is to accept them as they are God’s anointed. We keep them in prayer always and that being forgiving and loving, God will bless us even more. I will listen with an open heart. =)
God Bless~
i wonder what can fans of Ps KH learn from his teaching??Take a look at his blog entries on ‘tattoo’.link to konghee.blogspot.com.
If anyone agree with his teaching that tattoo is fine, look at Todd Bentley ,a minister who tattoo his body after his conversion.link to youtube.com.
Sometimes , common sense tell you whats right ,and what wrong.
Looks like there are those who disapprove of this marriage and will not attend the wedding. One “ungracious” comment even had to be disapproved – whatever happened to civil debate? Equally there are those who feel one of the partners are too short.
Nevertheless the solemnization will go ahead despite the objections because it is right and biblical. Not the “same sex” thingy of course.
St Paul was the greatest exponent of radical grace. Yet his letters to the churches were graced with commands, exhortations, instructions that usually had their basis in what Christ has done. He preached for a year and a half in the Corinthian church, and the saints there did not spontaneously, automatically live holy. They had rivers of living water but no irrigation canals. He still had to exhort them, command them, instruct them: so the revival they had experienced would be channeled aright and the ground would be fruitful.
My conviction stands firm: due to neglect of indicatives, most churches need to preach indicative-rich messages intensively and extensively till the congregations’ faith, hope and love are revived.
Do you…? “Yes I do” Do you….? “Yes I do”. By the power invested in me, I hearby declare you, indicatives and imperatives, husband and wife. What God has put together let no man put asunder!(clap, clap)
Hmm… well, we have 4 gospels in the New Testament but we would never think of marrying all four of them (Mathew+Mark+Luke+John). The authors were giving their testimonies from four perspectives, 4 different background. And we do not examine the 4 gospels like the way blogpastor had examined JP and KH.
It is not about the pastors’ strength in imperatives or indicatives or whatever, as long as they let God uses them, their messages will reach to the masses and touch the hearts of people in this fallen world. By the way, God always uses the weakest thing or people to manifest his work . We should not even talk about pastors being “great at preaching” certain messages. Pastors’ “greatness” and “strengths” are from our one and only God.
Blogpastor, we should focus on God and Jesus’s finished work. We should not focus on the pastors like the two that you mentioned here.
I am a member from NCC and by hearing the Grace of God and Jesus’ love time after time again, I am overwhelmed by Jesus love. So the imperatives come natural to me because I love Jesus very much and I am doing outreach so naturally without trying hard. I am telling people about Jesus every other day.
agree totally with PP .. Blogpastor … I want to know when you say ” yes i do” who say it first ? hahaha .. really curios .. is it JP or KH, want to know Grace over Law ? or Law over Grace … who decided to get married with who.
What Man call Balance; God looks at it as Mixture. we need different people for different ministries. We can’t integrate them.. i like your noble ideas of integrating them, i use to wonder what would be like if they work together in Singapore.
But for a thought, i think, it’s better they work in different direction. Each according to their talent.
you know the story of the servant with 5,3,1 talents. Well the one with the 5 talent, did differently than the 3 talents, but the master was pleased with both.
Let God alone be the Judge, he doesn’t make mistake. Everyone exist for the calling they have been called, come to the initial point, it is all about Jesus,
and MARRYING TO JESUS that’s what matter
…
Hi blogpastor,
I know where you’re coming from and I agree you on observation of their “marriage”.
Personally, I do listen to both of their sermons regularly and benefit from both too. Somehow it becomes more complete with one “loving God” and the other “loving people”. I think you know what I mean =)
Pastor Joseph Prince has books that have impacted many lives all over the world.
I have a few series of Pr Kong Hee and Pr Joseph Prince teaching..After reading/hearing to their teaching i conclude that:
Pr KH : something wrong with me coz i didint do anything..
Pr JP : something right with me coz of Jesus and i feel secured..
Heavenly and Earth are full of HIS Glory! , however we sinners full of sins and blinded by His Glory.
Whatever it is , just be still and know He is GOD.
Deo Gratias!
Hi all.
I’m new to this site and i worship at CHC.
I think the point is not in marrying the different styles, but wouldn’t it be great if the 2 churches work together to fulfil His work on earth? Just like some are called to be prophets, some evangelists, and others church builders etc, i think some churches are called to preach the indicatives, and some the imperatives.
So instead of debating which is better, what if we all decide to come together as one body with many parts? And reach out to different people, but with the same Love. Wow.
Collectively, we will be a powerhouse movement that will shake Asia. And rock the world.
Hey, i thot that was the original plot 2000 yrs ago, rite..?
Mr Simon Loh,
Do you know lots of Christains do not walk the talk and they are just comfortable with those people they love to be with.
What togetherness as one body, with many parts and reach out to different people, with same love, WHAT RUBBISH!
They are only a bunch of Hypocrite!, only thinking for themselves.
Stop dreaming, instead to shake Asia and rock the World , wait for the second coming of Christ to shake them off and to save the World.
It makes me sad whenever I see/hear/read one believer/God’s servant critizes another Christian/God’s servant in public. We are one family. Everyone has different talent and tasks to do. It will be better if we unite, embrace one another, encourage and support one another to fulfill our destiny.
I feel this post, right from the start, is already out of point. Why in the world are we comparing the ‘effectiveness’ of these pastors? These pastors are given different talents and visions in this world, to impact different groups of people. Why are we so fixed upon discussing/debating the pros and cons of them? Yet being blind to the the true purpose of our existence as christians? We are after all a Body of Christ. Not so-called “fans of Joseph Prince” or “Followers of Kong Hee”.
We are in no position to criticise their ways of imparting the gospel into followers of Christ. Doesn’t the Word of God teach us to not judge? But to LOVE one another?
If you truly want a pastor who is fully committed into preaching the gospel in a way you would like to hear it, well I have two options for you. One, rise up and be that pastor of your own wishes. Or two, pray for it. The bible does say “ask and you will receive”.
So thank you, and please stop commenting on pastors’ style or talents.
Hi Joel, we have never met but I agree with you. We cannot stop others from being judgemental, they are not interested in hearing our defence.
Christ came to save sinners, those who are willing to come to the end of themselves and let Christ to pay for their sins, for example, the hypocrites, and people who think of only themselves. One good example is Zacchaeus the tax collector,
Did Jesus tell him “You Zacchaeus breached the 8th Commandment – Thou shall not steal. ”
Of course not! Jesus told him to come down from the tree and he would like to eat at his house, what an abundant Grace!!!
Keith Ong mentioned “What togetherness as one body, with many parts and reach out to different people, with same love, WHAT RUBBISH!”
For it is written, Romans 12:5 “so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.” Romans was written by Apostle Paul. Are you calling it rubbish? Even if you do, I will not judge you.
Anyone who believes that everything that those pastors preach and teach are absolute truth truly needs to grow up.
If you have stay in the same church for more than a decade, you will realize they will never touch on or deliberately avoid or drop any bible context or verses that contradicts how and what they want to protray the message they want it to be. Of course, they are still many blind ones, still idolizing a pastor for decades.
The word. ‘GOD’ is indeed a word most manipulated by people, especially church pastors.
Divorce in NCC – Pastor Joshua Lee resigned – reasons stated in the NCC website – you think that’s the real reason?
Hi Truly Truly,
Pastor Joshua have been faithfully serving for nearly 27 years…since inception of NCC.
so let’s just cut him some slack ya…
I am from NCC, but whatever the reasons? i am sure he and God will have their own time to “talk” things through like all of us ya…
I bid you ShalomShalom
Yes, a great idea to marry the 2 pastors.
One is direct and aggressive in asking for money.
The other is subtle and crafty in doing the same.
That really strikes a balance.
Thank GOD our good government shows the public a wake up call as to some of these churches are doing ( the churches leaders actually are the culprits – godly, manly and devillish – all 3 in 1).
In the name of GOD, they do good deeds, they preach and teach good things, and at the same time, the devilish dishonest side also come into play.
Therefore, in GOD we trust 100%. Charismatic pastors – becareful!
sex, money and religion – what else do you need for an exciting life?
I’m not for either of them… i don’t enjoy their preaching… cause there’re alot of repeat and repeat message…. it’s back to square one…
I agree! They repeat themselves to be heard but then it’s probably their style because no bible college teaches pastors or priests to repeat themselves to be heard.
If congregation heard, so be it, if they miss it, so be it.
Kong Hee first to be jailed, Joseph Prince NEXT !!!
A true pastor of God, operating on wisdom of God and by the instruction of the Holy Spirit written on his heart will most probably not be charged in the court of law., just saying…
lyn, a true pastor of God will gladly preach His Word without demanding exorbitant payment from his congregation in return, Certainly, I agree with you that “A true pastor of God, operating on wisdom of God and by the instruction of the Holy Spirit written on his heart will most probably not be charged in the court of law”, This means that Kong Hee may in actuality NOT be a “true pastor of God”, thanks for pointing this out to us all. Very insightful of you.
How can you marry law & grace? God’s nature of grace is above all. If you know and love God, grace is the central theme of the Bible! Christianity is not living a religious life nor a life free to sin. Pastor Prince preaches with the revelation from heaven; based on the Word of God, his only tool that God gave him. Others use the tools of the world, secular songs, magic, etc. they thought being an undercover agent in the world will bring people to God. No undercover; Jesus is the only way, the truth, the life and the DOOR! Yes preaching Jesus every Sunday or repeated message of Jesus will help to remind us not about how weak we are but how strong Jesus is for us. We are forgetful, that is why we need the preaching of Jesus week after week!!! Being reminded of the love of Jesus is the best way to love God!!!
Was Pastor Prince a Mister Singh???
Why the need for are re-branding exercise – most people are comfortable with their flawed past. Who is the real man behind the new label and cultured image?
Genuine item or fake copy-heritage has a part. This public persona appears to be too perfect and promotes skepticism. Walks and quakes like a duck but is a swan??
Careful about what you say, Journeyman. What do you mean by “flawed past” in relation to your insinuation about Joseph Prince’s ethnic roots?
I am no fan of any self-serving rich celebrity “pastors” like Joseph Prince and Kong Hee, but race, ethnicity and their parents’ religion have got nothing to do with their current alleged crimes.
I would advise you, Journeyman, not to cite such insinuations. I agree, nonetheless, with your insightful points on these “pastors” putting up false celebrity fronts in order to cheat more money out of their gullible congregations.
Being a sinful person, I am flawed Like everyone who profess Christianity – the opposite of flawed is PERFECT. Unless my logic is flawed, I have presume everybody to be “flawed!!” except for Jesus whom all believe to be the only PERFECT being(human?) to have ever existed.Being a sinful person, I am flawed Like everyone who profess Christianity – the opposite of flawed is PERFECT. Unless my logic is flawed, I have presume everybody to be “flawed!!”
The question of ethnicity did not arise from me but from your interpretation of questions asking is JP had a ” Singh” for his surname.
See wiki
link to en.wikipedia.org
I also did not insinuate any of cheating on the part of JP – my interest is as always what can be verified and proven. Do you who is Joseph Prince was before he adopted a new name by deed poll. Am sure his paternal family name was not PRINCE
Trying to just ask simple questions and not interested in speculating why there was a nme change – only why the JB past is being obliterated. Most will just accept our fathers and mothers for who they are — we do not deny our parental heritage – after all we came into the world because of the decision made by 2 other beings or one and a – we also had no influence on their decision.
Appreciate your timely warning – my apologies if you think I insinuated beyond these simple statements
No worries, Journeyman, no apologies needed and none sought for. We are both voicing our earnest thoughts, regardless of the audience. We are both, apparenty, also aligned in our disagreement with prosperity gospel “pastors” like Joseph Prince and Kong Hee, regardless of their ethnicity and parental heritage.
The opposite of “flawed” is PERFECT. Most believers, accept that we are sinful and therefore flawed.
There is not insinuations about the ethnicity or flaws beyond this definition. Appreciate you do not try to interpret my statements for others thru the collage of your own experiences.
I have also not insinuated that some pastors are cheating or putting up false celebrity fronts – this is your own conclusion.
My source is wiki:…Joseph Prince, the son of a Sikh priest of Indian origin and a Chinese mother, [3]spent his primary school years in Perak, Malaysia.[3]
Prince changed his birth name to Joseph Prince during his previous occupation as an IT consultant. [3].
Am sure he was not born to a Mr and Mrs Prince .Just fascinated why his past familial history has been so well hidden – most of us accept our parents for who they are and do not deny their heritage.
Lets keep this discourse as gracious and hopefully we all stand by the statements we make and apologize if we have screwed up, after all I am flawed and full of many mistakes.
Pastor Joseph Prince is a genuine, wonderful pastor of God who led me and million others to fall in love with Jesus over and over again.
He is full of wisdom of God, filled to the full with the Holy Spirit of God.
He deserves his millions and more.
His heart is all for the Lord Jesus, his life is testimony of God’s goodness to mankind especially if we have an accurate mindset about our lovely Father in Heaven and our wonderful Lord Jesus.
His emphasis on the message of grace of our Lord Jesus is invaluable to us all and especially to fallen pastors. The more ‘fallen’, the more grace to you.
Let’s not say negative things about this man of God anymore lest a curse fall upon those who curse him.
The blessings of the Lord is upon
him
2Peter2:
3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories
lyn, if Joseph Prince is really as you said, “He is full of [the] wisdom of God, filled to the full with the Holy Spirit of God”, I think the first thing that he would have done, is to give away his “millions and more”(as you said) to the church and to help the needy and the poor.
The last thing that he would do is to accumulate vast wealth for himself, and to lead a lavish life, flaunting his wealth that came from the burnt pockets of honest hardworking people.
I see little difference between Joseph Prince and a rich entrepreneur out to “grow” his company to enrich himself.
Am I the only one who can see that the “king” is not wearing anything ? Pls, readers, help me out.
What evidence do you have, Thunder, that JP has millions in his pocket and is accumulating vast wealth for himself to lead a lavish life and flaunting his wealth……?
Blogpastor, you may be asking for the obvious. He drives a luxury car, wears expensive clothes, branded and/or tailor-made wear, lives in at least one luxurious home, zips around the world to speak as a celebrity(not to slog in the poorest slums), holidays in luxury, wears branded items, has enough in his bank accounts and portfolio to “forego” his alleged $500,000 per annum salary, grooms himself exquisitely (I cut my hair at a neighbourhood barber in contrast), holds his sermons in expensive venues etc. Am I the only man with my eyes open? Or is he really a poor man masquerading as a rich man ?
In stark contrast, I know NCC members who earn fixed modest salaries and try hard to make ends meet, and stinge on supporting their own parents, in order to give more to support the lavish lifestyles of NCC “leaders” and their expensive extravagant”church”. One such victim is my own beloved sister. This is WHY I am so critical of these prosperity gospel “pastors”. Do I share the pain of “Heartwrenchingparent” over her “lost: son ? I do. And I know YOU do too, Blogpastor.
Found this post by lucky tan informative and instructive….about manupulating minds and exploiting the vulnerable…….
see:link to singaporemind.blogspot.sg
Thank you blogpastor,
Yes, when a Christian prosper, we are quick to say they did not give money away. How do we know? That is between God and them.
All Christians should in fact rejoice when other Christians get blessed.
We call them names like celebrity pastors (with a connotation) and hypocrites. Why?
These are the people who lead the Lord’s name to Honor and Glory. We need to applaud them for doing it so well.
People of the world judge ‘success’ and ‘winning’ with money (and good health, the other provision of the Lord that many rejects). When they see ‘rich’ Christians they would be more interested to see what we are ‘doing’ right.
Why should we leave our young people to hero- worship the likes of Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Justin Beiber (I’m not up to date nor am the least bit interested in these) etc., their millions and their questionable moral values?
We want more and more role models like these blessed pastors, be it Joseph Prince, Joel Osteen or even sports people like Jeremy Lin and Tim Tebow for examples.
The ‘richer’ the better! The more winnings they have in the sports arena, the better! (my favourite is of course Tim Tebow who outrightly, without shame and without hesitation after EVERY game says, ‘I thank my Lord and My Saviour Jesus Christ, wow!)
They exalt Jesus and bring Jesus’s name to Honor and Glory. This should be every Christians’ dream and goal in life.
They are in the ‘winners’ circle’, so to speak (the winner being Jesus).
We should all pray more and more Christian celebrities (without connotation) come out and impact the world!
Give the world a view of what an army of young, dynamic, strong, powerful, beautiful, rich and blessed people of God is like. All these qualities yet with uncompromising standards and unquestionable moral values.
In fact, we should pray that we ourselves and our children join God’s army and march to the forefront of the world and show them who we really are in God.
All the prophets of old, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, David etc. were all in this winners’ circle. The Bible usually puts it like this ‘The Lord is with him (being David, Joseph etc) and he prospered/ he became more and more powerful etc.
Why not us? This should even more for us because we are on the right side of the Cross. The Lord is with us and even in us (we being the temple of the Holy Spirit) .
Why should we be poor, sickly and weak? What does that say about the blessed people of God?
People of the world would say of us “they can’t even help themselves now they want to introduce their ‘God’ to us? No thanks, we’re better off.
Let’s join hands and go forward. Imagine ourselves one of these, impacting the world for Jesus.
Move and shake the world together for God, for we know that God is no respecter of persons.
lyn
You come across to me as someone who has a balance view and wise approach. I should think that you would have the character to match up. That would surely light up the world – cos the Light in in you. Blessings
lyn,
Have you ever asked yourself, how much material wealth does one really NEED ? If EVERYONE aims to prosper by Joseph Prince and Kong Hee’s standards, there won’t be enough in the materail world and the earth itself will shriver and be ravished till utterly barren by the greed of humans.
There is enough for everyone, and there will be no hunger in the world, if we all learn to take just what we need, and spend the rest of our energy to help the others in need. I reject your “winners’ circle” world view, as it is like saying that might/wealth is right.
Just remember that it is always the same story, Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Kong Hee started humber, and look what wealth and power did to him.
You really think that the desire for more and more wealth is the key solution to all problems ?
Sadly prosperity expounders do not deal with the real challenges of life – that it is unpredictable at best and at the certainty, every human will die. Our fate will come in one of 4 ways (suddenly, after prolonged illness, from dementia or by suicide). Nobody is exempt – whether you are a devout follower of an annointed charismatic pastor, just plain vanilla christian or whatever your persuasion or profession, you will DIE.
Seems to me many would like to use FEAR and retribution of the Lord to persuade others not to look with eyes wide open or brains fully functioning like the good Lord intended. Prosperity may come to some, just like the talents unevenly distributed since Biblical times. Find it sad that money=blessings are promoted in some churches. Give more and you will receive 10X, 30X or 60X – why stop, this God is infinite – how about infinity plus one X more!!
If you like being told about what other people think God is and not prepared to read the Word for oneself, what more can I say?
Life is like the economy, there is a constant cycling – money(currency) has to be change hand for the world to go around.
If you think giving money to a popularly acclaimed facilitator is equal to a prophet anointed by God and deserve the millions and more, I stand in awe, Maybe the Truth does not set us free, only tales of unravel prosperity is the only way to go.
My chinese heritage implores me to shout PTL and HUAT Ah to all!!!
Dear Journeyman,
I have loved the Word since I was a child. I have read the Bible many times over.
I have myself been prospered by The Lord with millions and over.
I have fallen in love with God and Jesus because I heard a man that brought God’s love to life.
I don’t know whether he is a prophet but I know he preaches the love of the Father and The Son that I experience day to day, hour to hour, moment to moment.
With my money, I have prospered many. God is my witness, I’ll do more for Him for I am able.
I shall prosper and be in health even as my soul prospers.
I shall reign in life and in the world forevermore.
For the Lord is my Shepherd and I shall not be in want.
For goodness and love (mercy) shall follow me all the days of my life and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
I shall fall asleep one day, but my goodness, as far as I’m living I shall enjoy my Jesus and my prosperity.
In love with God and men,
lyn
Dear Lyn,
Seems to me you have been blessed many times more than the average Joe. I am happy you have found paradise on earth. Maybe now Solomon’s experiences perpetuated in Ecclesiastes may hold even more profound discoveries for your already rich journey.
Always thought real emissaries from my savior would look like this….Mathew 10:7-9
As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts. Maybe you can interpret this better – seems at odds with your beliefs.
Are you saying a man(apostle, prophet, messiah – just incase somebody on the biosphere thanks I have not been reverential enough with appropriate honorifics) of God will a well dressed, gifted speaker driving an expensive car, skilled in skiing, with Rock star like charisma and able to perform magic and would enrich us abundantly when we hand over at least 10% of our possessions to him and his helpers or even more.
Blessings=Money seems to work for you – look forward to you having Billions to enrich the rest of us who have so much less. Since NCC will be coming to our neighborhood, maybe you would consider blessing the community around with a NCC park and free coffee for Ah Soo and Ah Pehs by the canal?
I’m stating my views with respect to everyone.
I realize my audience are from all walks of life and rooted in reality etc.
My intention is just to give you a different perspective.
i have been prospered many times over, Praise The Lord. The secret to this prosperity is that I do not not dwell too much on it.
My eyes look to Jesus, He gives me the rest.
If there is one verse in the Bible that works for me time and again, it is this, ‘Look first for God and His righteousness (Jesus) and all these things will be added to you’.
I don’t look for money, discuss money, think of money much etc.
I look to Jesus, read His Word, desire Him and He supplies me with all things.
All my prayers are tailored to bring Him Glory and Honor. For example if I wanted money, “Lord, prosper me so that I can bring Glory and Honor to your Name” and bingo..He prospers me and I bring Him Honor and Glory (like I’m doing now
)
I don’t give up. Many people ask once, twice, they don’t see results, they tell themselves, “it’s not working. Let’s stop”.
Finish.
I don’t stop. I ask and I ask and I ask and I thank and I thank and I thank and I get my wealth then I do things to bring Him Honor and Glory. That’s my life story.
I use this prosperity as a bait to win people to Him. He calls us to be fishers of men. We need baits. My bait is my prosperity.
For example, I invite non-christian friends over to my place, get the best food and drink and then i subtly say that my God gives me all this and tell them abut Jesus. Simple things like this. If they need help, I help etc.
I don’t dwell on money too much. My peace and my joy is in my Lord.
At first I liked the taste of things money can buy me. That grew old quickly. I like to eat nice food but I fear getting fat so I eat simply. I have a nice house but after a while it gets dirty because of my two young girls and my house now looks tired. I like diamonds to impress people but I soon realise nobody cares. I have a ton of handbags which soon ran out of fashion. In other words, Who cares?
Peace, joy and my ultimate high comes from serving My Lord and Saviour. Ah, that Joy can never grow old.
I read a book by Angelina Jolie (a non-believer) once. She visited the poor in Africa. She wrote something that I’ll never forget. She did not understand how the people in this part of Africa, so poor, nothing much to eat etc. but when they went to church, they sang like they own the world! She could not understand it and it brought tears to her eyes.
Ah, but we know. We own the ultimate joy-giver. We are the privileged people of the world who get to worship the one true God. We do not need prosperity. We have the true prosperity. We have Jesus. We have everything.
Prosperity and all such things are just by-products. My thinking has always been I do not mind ending up in prison if only I get to have my Bible with me!
One time when I was shopping at a mall, it was right after the aftermath of the Japan tsunami, I looked at all the people around me. I looked at them, buying their clothes, their children, their mother and father and it struck me if there is a tsunami here, most of them will perish because they don’t know the Lord. They go on in their own merry way smiling and laughing.
We need all our resources to reach out to these people. Whatever works for you. Just get these people to know Jesus.
If we really believe that Jesus saves, this should be our focus.
Instead of the rich giving their money away they should use money to get people for Him.
The Lord knows this very well for He has made me a Bible teacher (I never had the intention).
To Thunder, can you for certain tell me that if the Lord prospers you with millions, you’ll give it all away?
Pastor Prince giving up his SGD500 000 salary actually works in his favour. SGD500 000 could buy his wife some nice diamonds from Tiffany’s a few times a week. He gives that up so that there are more money to his fellow workers and I suspect his eyes are not too much on the money too, yes? The rest of us would grab at that amount with all or hands and legs if the Lord even waves it in our direction, I suspect.
As for Journeyman, your English is often too sophisticated for a simpleton like me to even grasp at what you are saying
lyn
lyn, you asked me a good question. The fact is that I am a simple man, and I do not aim for millions, so there is no way that I will accumulate millions, at all. If I picked up a bag full of money, I will return it to the rightful owner since it is not mine to keep. I do not own shares, or indulge in the casino or even 4D, and I do not rent choice venues to cajole others into handing over their hard-earned money, so it is obvious, I will not ever be a rich man, ever, by choice. That I can assure you, by our Lord Jesus, who showed us that the way to salvation is NOT through fame and fortune and wordly titles.
lyn, since you are a Bible teacher, can I ask you to show us where in the Bible did you get such specific ideas as “We need all our resources to reach out to these people. Whatever works for you. Just get these people to know Jesus”, or “Instead of the rich giving their money away they should use money to get people for Him” ? If wealth was such an important means to lead people to Salvation, Jesus would have been born as the richest Merchant or King in history, and the Bible would be full of stories showing how Jesus used his gold and fine jewels to lead people to Salvation. I have never read anything in the Bible saying that Jesus relied on anything other than his intangible integral Goodness to guide others, and Jesus certainly did NOT rely on shallow tangibles like gold or riches. On the contrary, he was materially poor, and needed Divine help whenever he faced material problems whether it be parting the Red Sea or feeding the hungry. How Jesus lived shows us that wealth and riches are totally irrelevant to Him and his Message of Salvation, which are totally focussed on intangibles like Goodness and Kindness. Please, lyn, show us where in the Bible that you got your above ideas from.
Amen………
No amount of resources wil draw men to God. Only the preaching of Jesus will
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me”
lyn, respectfully, I must say that the way you speak about certain things are original and certainly NOT in line with the Bible that I think I know, as in your statements like “I use this prosperity as a bait to win people to Him. He calls us to be fishers of men. We need baits. My bait is my prosperity” and “I invite non-christian friends over to my place, get the best food and drink and then i subtly say that my God gives me all this and tell them abut Jesus.” I do not think that the Bible teaches that Christians will be rewarded materially in this world for their Faith, at all. To the contrary, the Bible teaches us that worldly materialism is totally unimportant and irrelevant in the message of Salvation. One might be going against God’s will by “baiting” others with money, as it is akin to saying that His Gospel of Truth, Kindness and Goodness is NOT significant enough a message to lead to Salvation. I am sorry, lyn, I just cannot reconcile what you said with the Bible that I know.
Hello Thunder and jckliew,
I totally agree with what you have said.
BUT
I often get the people to my place and tell them the goodness of my God and introduce Jesus to them. (You’d be surprised how curious they are about God). This is my outreach and I’ve given many, many Bibles (and will continue to buy Bibles for the people) away in my lifetime.
I get groups of people together to watch Mel Gibson’s “The Passion” in the cinema in my home.
When a Christian friend who was in need of a car because she travels from place to place to help the poor and to tell the poor about God, I bought her a car.
I support pastors who are paid a pittance and need my help to make a living.
I hold baptism after baptism in my pool because my pastor friends need a place to celebrate in a more meaningful way and to show my love to these people, we do this together. The feeling in my home is nothing short of miraculous and we can feel the presence of the Lord in every one of these events.
Now, I’m starting to baptize people on my own because they want me to do it!
I helped a mother (and her three daughters) who was abandoned by her husband. She needed money and I gave a huge sum and because i showed her love and was able to talk the talk and walk the walk, she and her three kids went to church with me. She has since gone home to Germany.
My nanny’s fiancee was stranded in New Zealand because he was taking a theology course in New Zealand and his non-Christian father decided to cut off his resources. I paid the whole sum for his living expenses and his school fees. Now he is a pastor in New Zealand.
My husband supports a pastor with his wife and two kids in China which enables the pastor to go preach in the countryside.
We also support Christian orphanages that saves the lives of children.
My driver drives me to my friend’s office on Saturday nights and I teach Bible to a group of young people till late. The numbers are increasing and a couple who had to move away even want to listen to me on Skype!
I mostly teach them how good God is!
Don’t worry now, Thunder, I refer all my teachings to the Bible again and again
The lady I bought the car for is my assistant. She gets the people, I teach them. Instead of going to the disco, nightclubs and bars on the next street, kids aged 18-30 are coming my way (on a Saturday night!)! Praise the Lord, Praise the Lord.
These are just a few examples but I guess this is my calling. (since you don’t know who I am, I feel it is ok for me share this
) Not boasting though. Glory to God, Glory to God who put all these in my way.
Prosperity with a purpose.
I think He approves of what I do because he keeps prospering me to do them. I am a weak woman. Some women of God can go through a lot of hardship to follow their husbands (or even on their own) to go to the poorest parts of the world and do God’s work. I can’t, because, I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT stand dirty and old fashioned toilets! I’m glad to be serving m from where I am!!.
I can do a lot more with money than I can without, I guess. I would not want it any other way for myself. I’m very glad to be doing what I do!
The above is NOTHING compared to what some other Christians without money are doing, Praise the Lord for them! Preach away..
I state my views with respect to others’ views. It is ok what your believes are, just as long as we tell people about Jesus!
I always wonder what it’s like for the people who were in the life boats that night the Titanic sank. They were in the boat safe and sound, watching the people all around them drown! This is what it is like for us, saved and watching the people around us perish without being able to do much.
Also, the people on the Twin Towers on 9/11, jumping to their deaths and all we can do is watch from a safe place.
Anyways, WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE not by good works!
It is just that life is much more fun and meaningful to serve the Lord!
(Otherwise, you can only find me at Takashimaya and 313@Somerset, aiyo!):)
lyn
I enjoyed your “boastings” as it is clearly for God’s Glory.
Simple and yet able to reach to the lives of the complicated.
One cannot comprehend as you give and give, more and more are given back to you.
Amen.
It is either a ponzi scheme or God’s gracious provision or Lyn is a wealth attractant. What other possibilities. Interesting that God does not seem to answer everybody’s prayer – question is can we “encourage” God to treat us better when we attend 3 hrs of sermons by an anointed Pastor – how do know there is anointing, by the size and wealth of the congregation. Looking forward to the prosperity that One North lifestyle center will bring to Bueno Vista, Holland V and Ghim Moh – Huat Ah – move to these suburbs if you want to partake. Unbelievable but true?
Uber impressed n speechless yr simple logic – u may want to extend a hand to another blogger James Lim who is currently without income.
Think he wud be a catch for yr prosperity bait. His blog is
link to cabby65.blogspot.sg
Also wow yr on tap prosperity request seems even faster than a roulette wheel at MBS or RWS
MBS and RWS are not places to get wealth
Sheldon Adelson and Lim Kok Thay would disagree with you all the way to their billions in the bank
Hi Lyn,
I like your simple life with the Lord prospering you in so simple ways.
Yes, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith will never go wrong.
Way to go sister..
There you all now know what to do – appreciate anybody who has a Huat Ah continue for a week or longer – Pls share experience – me still sweeping up the pesky gold dust that came from the bodies of believers that came to my home for dinner – must check before I empty my vacuum cleaner.
May all be blessed with wealth, millions billions or even zillions – there is no limit so long as you promise to use it for Kingdom purpose – maybe China Wine 2?
Dearest Journeyman,
You’ve misread me.
I’ll just cut and paste
If there is one verse in the Bible that works for me time and again, it is this, ‘Look first for God and His righteousness (Jesus) and all these things will be added to you’
The prayer for Glory and Honour to God’s name is only an example.
Whatever the Holy Spirit put in your heart. Glory and Honour to God’s name is my calling.
love in Christ,
lyn
blogpastor, thank you for not posting an earlier blog full of sarcasm (the lowest form of wit)
Dear Lyn,
My apologies if you think so.
Who really is Joseph Prince? – still intrigued by need for creating a new persona without a past. Do you know beyond what Wiki says?
Always concerned when money enters into spiritual realm, after all God does not need any – so who does, how much and for what?
Prosperity without fear of God is a reciepe for disaster
Hi Journeyman,
In my humble opinion, Joseph Prince is anointed by God to preach and teach the gospellah.
I was sent to his church about 14 years ago. I came from a poor background, broken home.
Nothing much was taught to me at home at all. I grew up all rude with a fighting spirit.
I knew Jesus and read the Bible but it was just dry. Don’t understand much at all.
Then I was sent (by God) to NCC. Pastor Prince really brought God’s word to life for me.
First and foremost, I was taught to ask for wisdom from God.
I was especially taught that Jesus saves and saves completely.
Not that I deserved the Grace that He has shown me.
Not that I can earn it.
This means the more ‘badder’ I am, the more of His saving Grace I need and I have.
So, for a ‘bad’ person like me, I am thoroughly blessed by Pastor Prince’s teachings.
I was then taught that God loves me unconditionally. My focus changed from my love for God to God’s love for me.
When I started to know how much God loves me, I started to trust Him with my life. I know this because He did not spare His own Son.
I used to pray ‘begging’ prayers. “Please God, please.” Now I called Him ‘Father, thank you for loving me very much and I know you’ve heard my prayer’.
Then I trust God’s answer for me is for my good.
I live my life in ‘rest’. For he has called us to labour to enter into the rest of God. jesus is my rest.
Pastor Prince then taught me to seek favour from God. This favour helped me with people as I grew up fighting. Praying for favour gives me a lot of ‘face’ as God begin to answer my prayers. Now, I have so much favour from God that I’m made to be a Bible teacher. I was such a terrible person before!! If you told me or my husband that I’d one day be a Bible teacher, we would have laughed out loud in your face
.
Then He taught me that my transformation is ‘fruit’, not root. This is true in my life because I used to try and try and try to be ‘good’. I’m good till my next anger! Then the vampire comes out of me!
But as time goes by and I drew nearer and nearer to God, I found my ‘badness’ fall off like dried leaves. It’s not like I willed myself to it. I just realised that God loves me, Jesus loves me and I ‘want’ to be good and I have the power to be a better person.
Years of trying brought me nothing.
But the Grace of God surrounds me and changed me bit by bit and slowly as I realised how much He loves me.
Pastor Prince teaches me these things. Not that his teaching changes me.
Knowing the love of God changes me!
Pastor Prince is just proven right, that’s all.
I think that he has blessed my life a lot. All pastors are to be respected.
I think we are on dangerous ground if we come against an anointed pastor. If God is on his side, we are automatically transferred to the side of the enemy!
If God is not on his side, we will all come to see it. He will be brought down. However, we are all saved by grace. It is not a big surprise if pastors fall because they are just people, after all.
This is just my opinion, of course.
Now that I teach the word, I know the work that goes into preparation to feed the people.
He must have put a lot of effort into his preparation, reading the Word and pulling out the meat for the people (also the call from God, of course).
He has many great ideas as to how to draw close to God. This year’s message is about meditating on God’s word and my favourite is about singing Hymns to God as we go about our daily business. wow!
I look forward to all his ideas about drawing close to God because I can’t get enough of God! More and more, Pastor Prince!
Now I trylah. Sometimes, I catch on the anointing. I can see more and more Jesus from the Old Testament. Great! My nine year old girl has also learned to love the Word! Powerful stuff..
People are no fool. His tapes and DVDs are selling like hot cakes! Why? Because I suspect most are blessed by them.
Your tithe you can give to any churchlah, no problem If you don’t give, it’s also ok. People give because we feel God has given us so much. 10% is not too bad. Tithe was given to Malchizedek by Abraham. The idea is 10% represents the whole. We give 10%, god blesses the whole. We can give or not, it’s ok. For God loves a cheerful giver.
Now he has JP Ministries. Just like the other pastors in the US. Everything done lawfully. He prospers from these and not really our tithes (maybe in the start but not now).
The church prospers from the people’s tithes, yes. But churches are a place of worship. We ‘want’ (like David, a man after God’s own heart) to build Him a wonderful house to worship in.
Pastor Prince is a man who fears God. He seeks God and lead and guide the people to do the same.
We all need pastors to lead and guide us. If not Prince, then someone else.
I just like Pastor Prince because he preaches that God blesses me (it’s more blessed to give than to receive, therefore God is the blesser).
I would gladly go to Pastor Ah Soo or Ah Huat if they teach me God is good!
Life is hard enough, I don’t need pastors who tells me week after week to “do right”. If I can, I would have done so long ago!
I just prefer to hear what Jesus has done for me and how the Father is pleased me because of what His Son has done and that He is my righteousness.
Like Pastor Prince like to say, he who believes right will live right!
I second that!
lyn
Dear all,
Sometimes I use my words loosely and I do not sit and ponder where I’m going to ‘fall’ in my testimonies.
I type fast and read it over once and send. Please forgive me if I were to use ‘politically incorrect’ terms.
My heart is in the right place though (at least I hope). Being human I’ll be the first to admit that I can be wrong and fallible and prone to error.
Please forgive me where I am.
I am teachable and my opinions are only to get you to see a different perspective.
In my opinion, it’s ok to prosper and to be healed and to be blessed by God. After all, all these words appear in the Bible again and again.
It’s ok not to be too.
This is your walk with your Saviour.
Different people have different callings, that’s all.
lyn
Btw, although I believe in the willingness of the Lord to prosper, i do not want to go all the way and say that everyone will prosper materially.
I read once ‘The Heavenly Man’ (and many others) the story of this chinese man who went around in the countryside in China to preach the gospel. It was a wonderful story full of miracles and deliverance.
I do not remember the story wholly or clearly but I do remember that he stated at the end that he cannot believe the prosperity message for this reason.
See, people running around the countryside in China to preach the gospel and getting caught by authorities left, right and centre, how to prosper materially? If he prospered materially, he’d probably be smoking cigars with the authorities.
Sorry for the many comments, blogpastor.
No worries, feel free to comment and reply. Everybody can learn together.
The sheriff is in town and the guns and bullets that kill are kept in the sheriff’s office.