Kong Hee’s arrest: framing a gracious response

Pastor Kong HeeBeing human I am not surprised at myself when a secret momentary delight surfaces when the mighty are cut down. We small church pastors have been made to look like inferior products compared with these mighty men and their churches, and whenever a merciless media cut them down to size, we somehow feel taller. However, it was not to be so when news broke about Kong Hee’s arrest together with 4 other leaders of City Harvest Church.

The morning after the Straits Times featured their stories, I awoke and imagined how painful it must have been for Kong Hee and Sun Ho. It ached. I flashed a prayer to the Lord for them. I am learning to weep with those who weep, to feel other people’s pain in my heart, and not to throw stones. Prayer has a way of aligning our heart attitudes to God’s.

I see the seriousness of the charges, but I do not condemn him. Not because we share a similar vocation, but simply because he is another frail human being. Only God is perfect, and all of us are flawed and imperfect. We are but common, easily broken, and earthen pots with hairline cracks; our only glory is in the content within: Christ himself. Even if he is guilty, which has not been proven yet, who am I, another frail human being, to throw stones?

Christians will be besieged by questions from friends and family members. With wisdom and graciousness we can let God’s grace shine even from what seems to be a dark moment for the church. For one thing, we must realize the church is not a target of the authorities. Let’s not demonize the intentions of the government. God knows the intention of every heart, so leave that to Him.

Neither should we demonize the accused, because they like everyone else are innocent until proven guilty. The wise will not speculate or prejudge before the conclusion of the case. Although we often assume that if the government agency spent two years investigating, it is likely there is substance to their case, let us not make that assumption that the parties are guilty of all they were charged of.

On the other extreme, we put the accused on the pedestal, perfect as a classic sculpture, without a single flaw. We deify him; he could do no wrong. This is to be expected of followers of men, but not followers of Christ. Michael Jackson was perfect. Whitney Houston was perfect. Don’t you dare insinuate otherwise. This is not good, not real. We should support and love unconditionally and that means we let the law run its course and acknowledge that they may have done something wrong, we have faith in a sovereign God, we pray for the accused through this difficult trying period, and even if proven guilty, they will not be abandoned and thrown aside like used tissue paper on a hawker centre floor.

I cannot allow for some of the comments I have seen in the last two blog posts. I have to do unto others as I would want others to do unto me, and I wouldn’t want my church’s name put down in digital infamy forever and ever amen. So I have privatised the last two posts – too many specific churches’ and pastor’s names have been mentioned negatively.  Some of you have fire in your bones and some have pain in their hearts, and I request that you go directly to the people concerned and express your feelings. Perhaps you have already done that and there has been no response or change as you would want. I urge you then to leave it to God since you have done all that you can to speak the truth in love.

The saga, if I may call it that, will not end any time soon. May the Lord bless all believers with a spirit of love and discernment for we need these two qualities the most in these last days.

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  • Thank you for writing this. It is gentle but contain strong guidance – i think it will help a lot of people. Christians have let God down since the night before crucifixion – God is still God and his glory not any the dimmer.

  • Dear Blogpastor,

    I must beg to differ.

    A person of your station – someone who has taken upon himself to lead a body of believers as pastor – cannot afford the luxury of moral relativism.

    Leadership is not easy. It requires moral courage and conviction, especially when it comes to a matter such as this.

    If a young, confused, and nubile Christian comes to you for advice as to the rightness or wrongness of a doctrinal issue, say, the prosperity gospel, what do you tell him or her? That it is not in the place of a Christian to judge? If so, I think you misconstrue Jesus’s teaching on judging.


    • HI SN, The issue is not prosperity gospel but the allegations of criminal breach of trust. Why should we throw stones when they have not been adjudged by the courts to be guilty of breaking the law? And if they were adjudged guilty, does that give us a right to condemn or an opportunity to forgive and restore? There is certainly a place for discerning the content of messages. When you adjudge someone of preaching the prosperity gospel it means you have researched a reasonable volume of his teachings (written, audio, video) and interpreted them in context compared against a standard of what’s wrong (which has to be theologically argued too!). I do not see evidence of that. Sadly, we have not moved from the medieval witch hunt, and preachers have a better chance in courtrooms than in the Church digital space.

      • Amen! Pastor Kenny,
        Gospel is good news and good news is bringing everything good and fruitful including wealth and money. The weakness are in man’s flesh of breaching the trust Jesus have in us, though He can see through us in the future but yet not because of man’s weakness, He behold His blessings for us.

      • Dear Blogpastor,
        While you position is technically correct, it is untenable in an empirical sense – attempting to blame a specific limb for the whole affliction.
        In the CHC case, the numerous youtube recordings of sermons concerning ‘tithing, donation and rewards,” are a regular if not paramount feature of most sermons from almost every pastor at the CHC pulpit. It has institutionalize Blessings=Money, the more blessings you want, the more money you “donate, tithe, love offering, ” the more “Blessings” one would receive.
        As an empiricist, trying to unravel the CHC-KH-IPC holding tangle, it would be logical for the State to focus on the “weakest link,” which is the conduit handling the money flowing between the production platform(Church) flowing thru the Service providing unit to the IPC Holding Company. Lapses in roles between the actors has setup conflict situations which might have encouraged criminality because of hubris, lack of governance and backbone in a compliant Board of Trustees. Invoking spiritual for these glaring lapses will only make a bad situation uglier. Like NKF when document discovery is invoked during the legal process we have to expect more worms. Tome the mind numbing recital of the “Lord’s Prayer,” is finally making sense – “…..thy will be done…” God is God, does exact what “He” wants, irregardless of what each of us want – like Jesus who did not want to drink from the cup accepted that it was his fate, because his father desired and ordained it. Do excuse my rough and superficial Biblical knowledge – just aiming to be approximately rich and not be dead wrong.

      • Blogpastor

        i also beg to differ.

        What we are seeing now is what Jesus called the fruits.

        Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

        This is the key issue.

        The ROOT of all these money problems with prosperity teachers IS the prosperity gospel.
        We are humans subjected to a belief in doctrines.
        Doctrines shape our behaviour.

        There are so many of Kong Hees preaching of twisting scriptures to support his doctrine.
        i am surpsied to hear you say that you have not seen evidence of that.

        Yes, we do not prejudge their doings on this media issue. However we have to judge their teachngs based on scriptures, moreso the pastors as they are gatekeepers for their flock

  • Blogpastor, I apologise as I have been posting negative views on specific pastors (JP, KH etc) and churches (CHC, NCC) in your blog. I am sorry if I caused any distress to you.

    I apologise to you, as you have been honourable, but not to those preachers of falsehood and cheaters of honest hardworking folks whom I named. I stand by my negative statements on them, and “I maintain my integrity”. At least, I am not doing this to pressure anyone into handing over more of his/her hardearned money so that I could live a lavish extravagant lifestyle.

    I can hold my head high and face God in this matter at least, just as you do, Blogpastor.

    • Hi Thunder, I believe it would do a lot of good to distinguish between fundamentals and peripherals. On the fundamentals of the faith: God as creator; salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ; the deity of Christ; belief in the virgin birth, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ; their belief in the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts: you will not be able to fault them on the fundamentals. They are sound in that regards. With regards to the prosperity gospel we have to acknowledge there is a continuum and you probably place them in the extreme, whilst others may place them in the middle or somewhere in between. Unless you have heard a dozen of their messages, which I haven’t either, lets not categorize them. If you do want to assess the content of their messages, then a more proper and thorough research needs to be done, with references to actual statements made in context, and shared with the body of Christ. You could do a blog perhaps but a comment box has no space for such. No offence taken. My concern is more with the names of HOGC and their pastors, it makes the church look very bad. Just as I would not want that being done to me, I will not allow it being done to them when I can do something about it. Though I feel for the anguished parent, the appropriate platform is elsewhere.

      • Good reply, blogpastor. I like this:

        “With regards to the prosperity gospel we have to acknowledge there is a continuum and you probably place them in the extreme, whilst others may place them in the middle or somewhere in between. Unless you have heard a dozen of their messages, which I haven’t either, lets not categorize them. If you do want to assess the content of their messages, then a more proper and thorough research needs to be done, with references to actual statements made in context, and shared with the body of Christ. ”

        As St. Augustine says:

        In necessariis unitas (In essentials unity),
        In dubiis libertas (In doubtful things liberty),
        In omnibus autem caritas (But in all things love).

      • The fundamentals of most of our faith is to place equal ” value” on each of the 66 books in the Bible. It deals with every facet of human emotion, frailties desire and wants. To have a one dimensional focus on any aspect of life eg prosperity would be destabilizing to young believers and people who are in the midest of a life crisis and embroiled in the surrounding acrimony and chaos. These should not be “victims” to unscrupulous shepards.

        Understand in for Paradise to exist in Nature there has to be a balance between Prey and Predaetor – it then will then be self sustaining.

  • Heb 12:25-27 tells us that in the last days, God will shake the heavens and earth.

    Hence, What is man-made (the Euro, stock market, property, ministry based on works, etc) will all crumble and fall.

    Only what is unshakable ie. based on the firm foundation of the person of His Son Jesus and His finished work, will remain.

    Blogpastor, the next time we meet, I will pass you this sermon…


    • Yup. Another differentiation would be whether it is works done ‘in the Spirit’, or works done ‘in the flesh’. The former will be as gold, silver, and precious stones. The latter, like wood, hay, and stubble.

      “1Co 3:11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
      1Co 3:12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw– :13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. :14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. :15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. “

  • Hi Pastor K,
    Been a while since i’ve visited your blog, but always a good and refreshing change from the vitriolic of things said about the recent CHC saga…there’s more to it than meets the eyes as usual.
    But whatever it is, let the govt do their jobs, i am sure after 3 years, they would have a case in point to prove, let all have their day in court. Let the truth prevail! Halleluyah!

  • I like your very gracious blog entry.

    I like to think that it is often about us, how we respond to others. I gave a lot to CHC but does it matter even if they had stolen, for I gave to God. It is my heart and my intention and faith that matters and that God will honor.

    I still remember meeting Pastor Kong and Pastor Sun when they were just engaged! Maybe its good to keep sweet memories.

    • We are all but stewards of our possessions. Like the talent parable, we are judge on our stewardship. The bigger the gift, the more onerous the responsibilities.

    • I really like that attitude! :).

      Indeed, men might receive what you gave, but it was given to the Lord which he honors.

  • I like to stress that one should not confuse the 5 persons’ intentions with the acts that were committed. A criminal act need not arise from an evil intent. A person who murders the rapist of his daughter is a murderer and is judged as such. A person who misappropriates funds, even when it’s not for his personal gain, is still guilty in terms of the laws here. Let’s make every effort to give the 5, especially, Ps Kong, the benefit of the doubt that he had every intention to use the money to spread the gospel. However, according to CAD, the way the money was obtained was illegal. The bible doesn’t condone criminal acts against the state, unless one is persecuted for preaching the gospel, ala the apostles in the Roman Empire. The situation here is different though. The 5 are persecuted/prosecuted not for the preaching of the gospel, but for the use of illegal money to preach the gospel (that’s if you can accept living the high life and pop stardom as preaching the gospel). We’ll still have to wait for the courts to decide but even if the courts give a guilty verdict, it by no means suggest the 5 were out to embezzle money, but rather they broke the law in the process of trying to do something for the kingdom.

    For the record, many comments say we leave it to the courts. However, knowing the way our court works, when a person is charged here, it’s up to him to prove his innocence. CAD has a 100% record in such matters. They took 2 years to look through the books. Your guess is as good as mine what the verdict will be, unless one is not really familiar with past CAD cases.

    The best we can hope for now is for justice to be served and for God to be glorified, although even that can be a tall order in this current situation.

    • Well St Paul was also imprisoned (albeit for righteous reasons), and what a ministry he made of it. Just pray that KH et al will glorify God with truth and courage wherever they end up.

      Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

      Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” :7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? :8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

  • all christians should stand united as one rather than casting irresponsible remarks which costs agony to brothers & sisters in Christ!!! Disgusting!!! Who are we to judge??? Praise the Lord for all happenings, it’s ALL in His plans…be it real or false accusiation….focus in Christ before being misleaded by the devil…..lets all be steadfast in Thy’s words awaiting for His glory to be delivered accordingly to His words.

  • Pastors with big churches tend to see their “sucess” as a validation of their methods. They also only listen to those who experience “sucess”. Pastors of smaller churches to these mega Pastors are lesser beings.

  • I am also a small church pastor and enjoying every minute of it. Going to these mega churches conference, I often felt inadequate and that I have not done enough, hence no church growth. Yet, I fine no joy at what happened to Kong Hee and CHC. I led my church to pray for them and defended them even though we are remotely acquainted.

    Many comments that jump the gun do not do justice to the Body of Christ. There are many pastors and church workers who are laboring for the Lord with little monetary rewards. We may even preached prosperity messages but we aren’t prosperous. We go through the birth pangs of getting people saved and the enormous work of building them up only to see them living us for the “Cities” – they go to bigger churches as there are more opportunities and perhaps even a greater presence of the Lord. And here we are constantly reminded about the strategies we should employed by mega churches conference speakers (they have to be from mega churches or else no one will turn up).

    Do I now think it is my time to get them. Not at all. It didn’t cross my mind. In fact, like blogpastor, I cried. Truth being told, I have prayed for these mega churches pastor time and again that they will not fall. Regardless of what they preached or the theme of the day, it doesn’t matter to me. But should they fail, it hurts too.

    So I say, leave KH and CHC to settle their matters with the authorities and with Lord Himself. The rest of us should go about with our work for the Lord. It should getting tougher but whose knows, revival could be nearer than we think.

    • “I led my church to pray for them and defended them even though we are remotely acquainted.”

      John, pray for them in love, but do not ‘defend’ them, coz we do not know the outcome of the truth yet. It is certainly inappropriate to ‘defend’ them over and beyond the civil authorities’ findings. We cannot assume that they have higher integrity than the civil authorities. Even in terms of the amount of ‘good’ done, we cannot say that Kong et al has done more good than the civil authorities. If saying that one ‘defends’ Kong et al despite the findings of the civil authorities, despite the charges, we are implying that Kong et al are on moral higher grounds than the civil authorities that charged them.

      It is better to choose the word ‘supported’ them. And even then, people can misconstrue the meaning; they can understand it as you ‘supporting’ acts of CBT and falsification of documents. Maybe, just say that you and your church prayed for them and upheld them in spirit.

      Pastor Lawrence Khong also clarified thus, “Please understand that seeking unity in prayer for Pastor Kong Hee and City Harvest Church does not mean I am putting up a defence for their alleged actions and/or alleged violations of the law. ”

    • I can obviously understand why some pastors would like to lead a big church.

      But small church, big church, mega church,
      it makes no difference to me (and I think a majority of believers too) whether 10 people go to the church or 10000 or whether it’s held in a posh auditorium or a 5-room hdb flat.

      After all, what’s the point of going to a church only to enjoy the plush seats, the high-end sound system or the large and “happening” crowds? I might as well go watch a movie or attend a concert or go to the clubs if that’s what I’m looking for.

      I go to a church because I want to hear more about Jesus Christ and his finished work. So any church that preaches this exclusively and can open my eyes to the hidden truths pointing to Jesus Christ in the bible gets my very enthusiastic approval.

      • Seems like an oxymoron – if the work is finished, what’s the point of listening or finding out more about it?

        Suggest you believe and claim an abundant life by faith by loving your Neighbour as yourself. The goodnews is that simple and you can read it for yourself – it is just a question of belief and trust.

        • It’s not a bad thing to be reminded that God loves us week after week.

          The prosperity message, alas, is not so much about money. It’s prosperity for every area of our lives.

          We come out of it having a good opinion of God.

          When troubles befalls us, which it eventually will, we are prepared and we trust we have God who has our backs. ‘I have a plan to prosper you, not to harm you’

          We walk around with thanksgiving in our hearts.

          Even if we don’t win the lottery, we are always reminded that God loves us through His Son (the ultimate Gift).

          We cannot only read for ourselves. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Jesus)

          Singaporeans are so blessed to have pastors who exalt Jesus week after week. Sometimes when we are stationed overseas, we attend churches week after week which hardly ever mentioned ‘Jesus’ much less His finished work.

          Whenever I go through this, I get so ‘hungry’ for Him. It’s like gorging yourself with food and never feeling full.

          When the pastor eventually mentions “Jesus” my spirit jumps within me and I feel like giving him a standing ovation!

          The good news is never simple. The work of the flesh is simple. The work of the Spirit is not. You’ll find me when you seek me with all your heart..

          Aren’t we pretty blessed to have pastors who spearhead the way for us?

          • The second sentence, I meant to say, the misuse of the often misunderstood term ‘prosperity message” is not only for money but every aspect of life. Pardon me.

        • “Seems like an oxymoron – if the work is finished, what’s the point of listening or finding out more about it?”

          The point is to know all that you have inherited in Christ.

          Even if you have $1 billion stashed in one of your bank accounts, but you don’t know that this account exists and moreover no one tells you, you can’t use the $1 billion, can you? A flawed analogy to a spiritual truth maybe, but I suspect the situation is similar enough.

          Your comment to “claim an abundant life by faith by loving your neighbor as yourself” is actually in the opposite.

          What is biblically consistent is “love your neighbour as yourself by claiming an abundant life by faith” (in Christ).

          The point being that to truly enjoy life, we need to rely on Jesus and his finished work in all things.

          By the way, I need to be reminded of these things myself as much as everyone else.

  • I hope CHC will do what Calvary Charismatic did in the 80’s – decentralize the church, go regional, and change their name. Calvary benefitted greatly from this move.

    More leaders will emerge within CHC and they will still grow but without the burden of raising funds to maintain their mega identity and big projects.

  • Since the day Adam ate the forbidden fruit, nobody is immune. Seen a lot these, eg. Jim Baker, Ted Haggart, etc. in the US too. To me, the best guide to life is still “To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly before your God. (Micah 6:8)

  • Red bean observed that best paying profession in Singpore are not lawyers, bankers, doctors but priesthood. Guess we sud be grateful for unbridled grace and prosperity gospel being preached by Pop icons, magicians, faith healers for making Christainity so attractive and delivered in multi million/billion facilities.

    We are being blessed with newly minted Christian xillionaires to be the salt and light of the universe. The Antitoch of the 21 millennium is coming – Huat Ah to all, PTL – believe and ye will be given – please give exact specifications of the gift you desire – send with a substantial love gift to the many ” anointed by God” and see the miracle happen in real time.


      • People are weird.

        Why is it that we condemn Christian leaders for being rich but when we ourselves (whether lay Christians or even unbelievers) are rich it’s perfectly okay?

        It’s like a hypocritical knee-jerk reaction, regardless of the leader or the messages he actually preaches.

        So God is not allowed to bless these Christian leaders with abundance? God can only bless unbelievers and “normal” Christians like you and me, is it?

        And don’t try to tell me that you condemn their heretical preaching and controversial messages etc etc, because the focus is always chiefly on their wealth. (IE, if they are poor and teaching a heretical message, I think nobody really cares).

        Anyway if you’re so flawless and your eyes are so open, then you need to ask why didn’t God put you up there on the pulpit instead of them?

        • There is a slight difference between being blessed by God and fleecing one’s flock or even muttonizing the sheep.

          Thought there was only one flawless guy thru the ages but unfortunately he “finished” him and have been trying to makeup for it since. Being flawed myself, never being inclined to been inclined to teach or even tell people what to do with their resources or talents.

          Can understand that a church organization would need cash, resources and talent to accomplish altruistic works.

          Perplexed why an omnipotent God would ever have the need for man made cash or that he would ever need to services of a slick tongue to
          dramatize any of His Creations.

          Seems to me strange He would ever need Man to glorify him always thought it was the other way around. The Good News is FREE – just smell the rain, feel the cooling breeze and be in awe of the sunrise and enjoy all the gifts of being alive.

          Am just a simple man no great ambition beyond enjoying my gift and trying to help fellow travelers from falling prey to unscrupulous professionals of all persuasions.

          Understand there is now legal fund being setup to help pay the legal cost of those that have been charged. If one believes in the integrity of the accused and feel strongly – guess one could sell one’s possessions or even house and donate the proceeds. That will be conviction of one’s belief.

  • Ye must have faith!!

    ….also ensure the appropriate amount gets to the “Anointed One(s)” – the said authority will issue unsecured Perpetual Bonds and miraculously it will be multiplied many times over enabling redemption n coupon payment – just like feeding multitude with a couple of fishes and loaves of bread.

  • Everyone who posted their thoughts here has our own experiences, background, encounter, beliefs etc.. But if anything is to be true, it will be that we remain in Christ because we know there is no higher Being who know us better. The bible teaches ‘Judge not, for in the same way we will be judged.’ His word clearly emphasises also that we do not take things into our own hand but TRUST His judgement alone. And when we see a brother sinning, we approach him privately and not to announce to the world, even if this brother refuse to repent, the bible says clearly we are to love him as we would to those who dunno the Lord.
    My point is so what would one gain IF Kong Hee gets sentenced? What would one gain IF one is to insist KH as a pastor has sinned and betrayed his people? What do such talks amount to?
    Paul was thrown into prison in those days because under Roman empire, he broke the law. God still love and use Paul. Anyone who responded to blog pastor’s article know KH personally and understood him in & out since he was a babe? Even the adulterous woman Jesus responded with ‘he who has no sin throw the first stone’.
    What I am trying to say is this: let’s take time to pray for KH, all those involved and their families. If it will help, see KH as the father of a little toddler. One very simple reason: because we are one body in Christ. We love those weaker for the moment into strength and health. One day… we too will need such support n love.

  • Sorry I have this to add: if my son or daughter do something wrong, I will still protect. They are still my kids. Will discipline them but still love n accept them. Let’s not see things n use words as the press and media would. Defend is not a good word to use in KH’s case. Judicial system is not enemy. It is a benchmarking and moderating body. So there is no enemy for us to defend KH against.

  • I think the main problem with Pentecostals/Charismatics is its origin or birth. It began in the 1900s when Charles Parham of Topeka, Kansas, seek to recapture the spiritual power of the Holy Spirit that was wrought by the apostles during the Pentecost of ACTS.2, which had since practically disappeared. He began “speaking in tongues” and claimed success in his endeavour. It might have been mere babbling.
    ……. So, began the Pentecostal movement of seeking for the “baptism of the HS” with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Later, other gifts of the HS were also “successfully” obtained by neo-Pentecostals or Charismatics, eg miracle healings, exorcism, etc.

    The big question is, ” Was Charles Parham quest scriptural or part of God’s will?”

    I think HEB.1-2 & 2:4 and 1COR.13:8 imply that it was not scriptural. God employed His Spiritual powers of miracles and signs and wonders to attest His messengers/prophets and His message. So, when God gave the world His laws thru Moses and His salvation thru Jesus Christ, these revelations were accompanied with explosions of miracles and signs and wonders. After the passing of the generation of Moses and Joshua, and JC and His apostles/disciples, such Spiritual powers ceased. This fact has also been confirmed by history.

    P/C also claim that God often speaks to them thru their “inner voice”, mental impressions, ideas, thoughts, dreams, visions, etc.
    ……. I think God mainly speaks to His people thru His Word, as recorded down by His prophets and apostles/disciples in the Bible bc they only need to know or “hear” from Him about His salvation and His laws.(LUKE.16:19-31) Miracles and signs and wonders do not save people from hell.

    I think it is reasonable to group the Pentecostals/Charismatics with the cults, eg Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventist, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc.

    If this is so, then Ps Kong Hee was deceived by Satan when he deceived his sheep/CHC members with the Prosperity Gospel.(2TIM.3:13)
    ……. The Prosperity Gospel needlessly puts a lot of financial burden on Church members and that is not a loving thing for any pastor to do, esp in order for them to live like a king.


    • wahhhhhhhh!!! your bible knowledge is admirable ,heiheihei !
      But please share with us here about your prayer-life?What time do you wakeup for your daily morning prayer?
      How many hours do you spend in the prayer closet daily ? When was the last time you fast and pray to seek the face of GOD ??? Im curious lehz ,hahaha !(singlish)

      • Beliefs like psychosis are a personal experience – cannot be shared or duplicated. The commonality of the reality distortion in one’s beliefs generates much debate and heat. The only reality we have in Christendom is comparing the practice to the written template in the Bible. Many unscrupulous organizations would distort so as to exploit for the gain of the “anointed with slick presentations and rhetoric.” Those who aggregate around such charismatic people would have psychiatric resonance or sympathies. Most of cognitive experience of our environment is often far from physical realism – hence each of us have “blind” spots that often cannot be explained by others. In the end, we need to determine if 30,000 followers are right or the general society at large. We have always favored the oppression by the majority but they have been many examples of this being completely wrong.

        Me? – hope to be approximately right and not absolutely wrong

      • @ joseph (prince.???)

        Quote: “… pray to seek the face of GOD ??? ”

        Reply,……. EXO.33:20 = But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me and live.”

        Please do tell, how does the face of God look like.??? I’m also curious leh, hahaha.!

  • Just like in Ponzi and Pyramid scams, I think Ps Kong Hee’s Prosperity Gospel also capitalizes on peoples’ greed for money and riches by tempting them with 100-fold return from their tithes and offerings to God. So, I think most of the CHC members are carnal Christians who mostly walk and live according to their evil flesh/hearts, and not seldom according to the Spirit, esp the youths(new, naive and ignorant Christians).
    ……. Carnal Christians tithe to God bc they desire to be blessed by God with riches and prosperity, as promised by KH in his Prosperity Gospel. Spiritual Christians tithe to God bc they love God and love to contribute to God’s work, eg upkeep of the Church, provision for the livelihood of the pastor, discipleship, missions, charity, etc. In love, God may bless spiritual Christians with His presence, loving fellowship among the brethren, joy, peace, harmony, contentment, health OR prosperity.

    True love is a fruit of the Spirit and can only come when new Christians live by EVERY Word(=Jesus Christ) that comes from the mouth of God(the Father)(MATTHEW.4:4, JOHN.6:63). This is done when they study and properly digest ALL the Word of God or ALL Scripture(both OT and NT).(2TIMOTHY.3:16) Thru the Word/JC, the Holy Spirit empowers them to begin to keep the laws of God(HEB.8:10), ie to love God and love their neighbours/friends.(MATTHEW.22:37-40 = DEUT.6:5, LEV.19:18)

    Youthful and carnal Christians tend to ignorantly commit sins/evil deeds and foolishly sympathize with criminals/evildoers bc they r ignorant about the Word/JC or the laws of God.(cf JOHN.14:15, 1JOHN.2:3)
    ……. To them, KH is their “idol” and the ‘goose that lay the golden eggs’. Without him, the fame of CHC and their golden eggs of 100-fold returns will be gone and CHC may go bankrupt. Hence, it is for their own self-interest that they are morally and financially supporting him, like cronyism in politics.
    ……. To them, he is “the greatest man on earth”. Jesus Christ could only multiply 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread that fed 5,000 followers for only one day. JC “could not” multiply money into 100-fold. Instead, He told a rich youth to sell all his possessions and follow Him.(MATT.19:21) So, Kong Hee is the greatest man that they will ever know.*sarcasm*

    Also, like a social club, mega-CHC attracted many MLM dealers, direct-selling agents, real estate agents, insurance agents, unit trust/mutual fund salespersons, etc. Thru social networking among the ready market of 30,000+ members, these peddlers could really make a lot of business and get 100-fold return from their tithes. These pseudo-religious networkers/clubbers really prospered from KH’s Prosperity Gospel but it was not really a work of God, but a work of the flesh.

    For the other non-peddlers, the 100-fold returns usually do not materialize and KH will blame it on their lack of faith in God or they did not donate enough or they have hidden sins, which prevented God from blessing them. With justification for giving zero returns, KH’s prosperity scam can continue for eternity.
    ……. In comparison, a Pyramid scheme will eventually fizzle out and collapse when there are no more new sucker-investors. By then, the scammer will have absconded with the stolen millions and live happily on a paradise island.

    I think mega Churches like CHC has turned into a “den of thieves” as condemned by JC at MATTHEW.21:13 about the Jews’ Holy Temple.

  • I don’t want to stir the hornet’s nest too much, but sometimes I think it’s good that we reminded about our roots from a different vantage point.

    Many of us are the way we are because we were born into different environments and circumstances and even genetic makeup as some scientists say. So even as some of us condemn the serial murderer or rapist, how can we be so sure we won’t do the same thing if we were put into the exact same environment and circumstance and given the same genetic makeup?

    The sooner we admit this the better.

    How then can anyone who is truly honest with themselves think of themselves as being ‘righteous enough’ for God to earn anything other than condemnation, let alone eternal life? No wonder the bible says that all our righteousness are as filthy rags.

    Consequently, if we are all equally condemned in and of ourselves, how can we be so quick to judge others in good conscience and not look like a complete hypocrite?

    I guess that’s why the Lord says we should not judge, simply because we are unfit to.

    It’s also when we truly realize our own innate moral bankruptcy, that we can really thank God for his downright amazing love and mercy, that he has sent Jesus to be condemned in our place instead so that we can now qualify for all the things we could not earn before.

    No wonder the bible says that the (people who think they are) last will be first, and the (people who think they are) first will be last.

    • @ Ben

      Quote: “I guess that’s why the Lord says we should not judge, simply because we are unfit to.”

      IMO,……. At MATT.7:1-5, I do not think Jesus Christ was forbidding believers from judging others. It’s more like the idiom, “The pot calling the kettle black.”, which means a person who is guilty of the very thing of which he/she accuses another of, ie a hypocrite.

      JC was telling hypocrites to not accuse and pass judgment on others for the very same sins that they themselves were guilty of. Maybe these hypocrites were guilty of even worse sins.
      ……. Instead, they should first repent of their sins, learn from their mistakes and then try to correct other similar sinners and only judge them if they do not repent.
      ……. If such unrepentant hypocrites judged and condemned others, “with the same measure of condemnation that they used, it will be measured back to them by God”.

      So, hypocrites who have repented and removed the plank(means they had worse sins than their brother) from their eyes can then see clearly to remove the speck of dirt from their brother’s eye.
      ……. Therefore hypocrites who have repented of their sins can judge and correct others for similar sins.

      This is similar to MATT.6:15, “But if u do not forgive men their sins, neither will yr Father forgive yr sins.”

      LUKE.17:3 says, “If your brother sins against u, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.”

      The kind of judging mentioned in MATT.7 refers to the judging of the brethren; and not to the judging of pastors/prophets. See JER.23.

      At MATT.7:15-23, JC told His sheep to JUDGE prophets/pastors by their fruits. False pastors/prophets bear the fruits of their evil flesh/hearts(GAL.5:16-23), ie those who practice lawlessness or evildoing. False pastors/prophets come in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they r ravenous wolves; they come to steal, kill and destroy.

      There r many pastors who are righteous and do not ravish their flock. They obey the Word of JC to feed His lambs(with the Word) and tend His sheep(protect them).(JOHN.21:15-16) Righteous pastors/prophets bear the fruits of the Spirit.

      At 1COR.2:15, Paul said, “But he who is spiritual judges all things.”

      At 1JOHN.4:1-3, John told the brethren to test the spirit of every prophet/pastor to judge whether they truly have the Spirit of God. False pastors/prophets love the world and the ways of the world.(1JOHN.2:15-17)

      So, immature lambs and mature sheep should heed the warning of JC about false prophets/pastors. They need to judge them and test their spirit.
      ……. It’s similar to how people judge their political leaders and then cast their votes or vote with their feet(migrate).
      _ _ _ _ _ _ _

      Quote: “No wonder the bible says that the (people who think they are) last will be first, and the (people who think they are) first will be last.”

      Reply……. I think MATT.19:28-30, which mentioned about “judging the 12 tribes of Israel”, may imply that the first referred to the first Jewish Christians and the last referred to the later Gentile Christians.

      At that time, Peter and the other apostles never imagined that one day Christianity would flourished among the Gentile nations, like today. Today, very few Jewish Christians remained, ie those who still keep Moses Law, and most Christians are Gentile Christians.

      So, maybe JC was saying the Jews(who were first to convert) will be last and the Gentiles(who were last to convert) will be first; in terms of the number of people who will inherit everlasting life.
      ……. More Gentile Christians inherit heaven, compared to Jewish Christians, even though the gospel of salvation came to the Jews first.


      • wahhhhhh!!!!!!! good bible knowledge man!Like someone with a doctorate degree in biblical theology hei hei hei!!!
        Hey,you still hvnt share with us here about your prayer-life hor?So its unscriptural to ‘SEEK HIS FACE’ huh? Oh I see ,may be my NKJV (NEW KING JAMES ) got such error hohoho!
        Btw,would you like to company me to 7 fountain retreat centre in chiangmai for personal retreat ?We will spend quiet time in the tangible presence of the living GOD.Day and night immerse in the river of HIS pleasure ?http://www.thesevenfountains.org/index.php/en.

        • Can we find God anywhere else if we unable to go to 7fountain? Thought I found God at many place I passed thru or stopped at

  • As a Christian who walk close to the Lord, I realised and have experienced bouts of disobedience where it has caused me to stumble with an often not so desirable consequences.

    I think this is a pastor who, somewhere along the line, has ‘missed it’ in a big way.

    The solution for him is to look for, go back to that point and repent and the Lord who is abounding in Grace will forgive him and probably restore him.

    Since he is a pastor who pastors thousands he owes it to his congregation to do that much at least (praise the Lord the rest usually has an audience of 1 or at most 10 to deal with :)).

    What is sad about the whole business which I have been trying to put right (in the smallest of ways) ever since I first wrote are (among others)

    1. This does not bring honor to the Lord’s Name (Christians and non-Christians alike).
    It is a humiliating to a church, in fact.

    2. Other ‘mega’ albeit wonderful churches and pastors are dragged trough the mud with it as well.

    I think it is important that he and ‘his people’ realise that something is wrong somewhere. Although we ‘try’ not to judge others but it would be great if we are also able to discern what is right and what is wrong.

    This, of course, is relevant to his congregation and not so much to us all (especially not to a NCC member-guilty as charged :))

    The things of God is wonderful and (usually) does not involve the criminal courts :).

    When money issues has become bigger than God issues in a church, the person in charge have to turn back, re-evaluate and reboot, so to speak.

    • @lyn
      Don’t u think “discern what is right and what is wrong” is the same as judging?
      Maybe some are equally confused by “tithing” – GOD does not need money but Church and Man do – maybe honesty and transparency sud come into our “religious vocabulary,” so that our word is precise without having need to swear an oath thru God to persuade anybody of our earnestness

  • Non-pentecostal– Just wanna share a book wth you which is very good. ” Surprised by the Power of the Word .” — Jack Deere.


  • Journey man,

    As your name is Journey, i pray that as u journey on in yr life.
    U will embark on a journey discovering who this person of Jesus is.
    God says Himself: He who has seen the Son, has seen Me.

    The reason why as children of God , we forgive. Because
    We have been forgiven. We love , because He first loved us.
    I believe even though a child of God has done something wrong,
    not saying that CHC has. But our Heavenly Daddy will correct in love.
    You may think “so unfair” But the truth is Life is unfair. Why did God had
    To sent His perfect , darling , faultless Son to save guilty n dirty n sinful man?
    God choose this way, out of His love for man n now, sinful man can draw
    Dear to the creator, our heavenly Daddy.
    The Forgiven , Forgive
    The blameless, do not blame n judge
    The loved ones, love people
    Its not that we are great, its because He is great!
    U can too. Its a choice.

  • U r right – Forgiven but not forgotten as we are condemned to repeating history if the lesson is not learnt.

  • Journey man if you are born again. You shall never ever ever
    be condemned. You cannot be condemned. Because Jesus has been
    condemned in your place.

    Jesus said to the women caught in the very act of adultery,
    “Neither do I condemn you, Go and sin no more.” God’s way
    For sinful, gulity people to sin no more is to tell them that
    God does not condemn them, becoz the Lord Jesus
    Was condemned in our place.” This will empower people
    to go and sin NO more.

    I pray u have a relevation of this passage.

    By His Grace

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