What, then, is the difference which He has made to the whole human mass? It is just this; that the business of becoming a son of God, of being turned from a created thing into a begotten thing, of passing over from the temporary biological life into timeless ‘spiritual’ life, has been done for us. Humanity is already ‘saved’ in principle. We individuals have to appropriate that salvation. But the really tough work – the bit we could not have done for ourselves – has been done for us. We have not got to try to climb up into spiritual life by our own efforts; it has already come down into the human race. If we will only lay ourselves open to the one Man in whom it was fully present, and who, in spite of being God, is also a real man, He will do it in us and for us. Remember what I said about ‘good infection’ . One of our own race has this new life: if we get close to Him we shall catch it from Him.” (Mere Christianity, C. S. Lewis, pp. 156-157)
C. S. Lewis proves that “at the center of each there is something, or a Someone, who against all divergences of belief, all differences of temperament, all memories of mutual persecution, speaks with the same voice,” rejecting the boundaries that divide Christianity’s many denominations. This twentieth century masterpiece provides an unequaled opportunity for believers and nonbelievers alike to hear a powerful, rational case for the Christian faith.
WIP disciple, May I know where that is quoted from?
Oh blogpastor, its just a quote from a commentary of the book , cant remember who.
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Blogpastor, do you enjoy the book ? Its a heavy book though great book and help me fall asleep sometimes.
No, I did not enjoy it because I did not read it in the first place. CS Lewis enlightens me through the insights I get from quotations from his books. So much can be found in so few sentences. He is highly quotable, respected as he is my many. Like you I have bought Mere Christianity, tried reading it, but found that his answers and my needs did not match. Yes it can possibly cure insomnia in some folk. 🙂
This is another so-called “coincidence”, but part of my initial searching for the true God kick-started because my Christian friend gave me this book (Mere Christianity) as a present before I went abroad for studies about 13 years ago. I was basically a confused agnostic/materialist then and it presented some good arguments for Christianity that certainly gave me cause to question my own beliefs.
So while it might cure insomnia in some, I’m sure it has also helped others “wake up” metaphorically speaking!
Went thru the book in flow start of mind – many eons ago – was the tipping point for me. Pascals wager is at the heart rational belief – will yr life be better with or without God? This makes a aethist or theist of one. The next is about which tribe u want to join or can one abstain from the second decision. Guess whatever makes one fulfilled and happy will be ok. Since no viewpoint cannot be proven to be absolutely right, what r the alternatives. Guess for me is to become the light n salt so the good news can be spread, touching and lives abundant as promised and to be claimed. Brow beating detracts from teaching and sharing. Can anyone claim to more anointed, blessed or gifted than anybody else. Seems that human nature of ego, pride and one-upmanship prevents many of us from spreading the goodness effectively.
I differ in the sense that I just want to know the truth/facts. The question is: Is there a God or not?
If there is no God, then I don’t want to waste any time believing in a very pathetic lie, regardless of whether there’s any self-benefits or not. Pascal’s Wager is not enough of a reason for me. I must know that God exists first.
Apparently, most atheists go with this line of reasoning also. Just that for them, they feel that current evidence for the existence of God and the resurrection of Jesus Christ is not convincing enough.
The lie cannot be proven or disproven beyond a reasonable, rational paradigm – leads to a paradox posed by Schrodinger’s Cat puzzle
Schrödinger’s Cat: A cat, a flask of poison and a radioactive source are placed in a sealed box. If an internal monitor detects radioactivity (i.e. a single atom decaying), the flask is shattered, releasing the poison that kills the cat. There is a supposed fifty-percent chance of this happening. The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics implies that after a while, the cat is simultaneously alive and dead. Yet, when we look in the box, we see the cat either alive or dead, not both alive and dead. This poses the question of when exactly superposition ends and reality collapses into one possibility or the other.
The framing of duality enabled Feynman to discover quantum mechanics, leading to many advances in science from digital electronics, material sciences and a Nobel prize. His seminal work 6 Easy Pieces is a very succinct and concise statement of evidence – this couple with Lewis has led me to my present position. To me my belief must not be contradicted by actuality or reality – as a cognitive organism, my senses and functioning brain are the only things allowing me to make sense of my environ and my present existence. Yet I know my senses and brain can fool me.
Truth and God appears to be indivisible to me while some appear to have ability to suspend reality. It is not far fetch for me to have a perspective that God will only exist for those who believe – hence Pascals wager is an indivisible point in my journey. Would be grateful if anybody has other tools to offer.
Sorry, I’m not sure if we are arguing about the same things.
Correct me if I’m mistaken but you seem to say that on one hand, you need your beliefs in God to be defined and not contradicted by the reality that you perceive as a cognitive organism. On the other hand, you say that your senses and brain can fool you – in other words, it’s not fool-proof to simply trust your interpretation of reality, and therefore your definition of belief in God.
If I understand you correctly, Pascals Wager makes sense for you because you think that God only somehow exists or is effective only for those who believe in His existence? Somehow comparing it to the “collapsing” of quantum states because a person believes/observes God???
While in some way that MAY make some sense, what evidence is there for all this? Besides, a well known problem is who/what is the “observer” that forces a collapse of quantum states? Us? If it’s us, then who “observed” us to force a collapse to our current state? God? If it’s God then God cannot be dependent on our beliefs or observations, right?
You know that the Schrodinger’s Cat illustration is actually a an absurd paradox, and not really meant as model of reality. After all, while we may suspend some disbelief when we talk about subatomic particles being in a superposition of states but when extended to a cat it’s illogical to say that a cat is both alive and dead simultaneously. You talk about “truth” but if anything, this thought experiment just shows man’s inability to really grasp the true nature of reality.
I feel that the conclusion of the matter is what you initially proposed. That is, being rational and logical is good but our senses can be fooled and our brain is ultimately limited, and there are many things we will just never fully comprehend. This is fact.
By the way, trusting in what God says does NOT imply an illogical suspension of one’s reality. It makes perfect logical sense IF we accept that man’s understanding of reality pales in comparison to God.
Hopefully this is not an argument of any sorts but a discussion of rational, logical beliefs that links spiritual value to physical reality.
Guess we are all stuck with the human condition – cognitive organism. Since u perceive the environs in the same manner, I am assume your senses can be fooled like mine. The best is the visual perceptions of visual paradoxes, like the perpetually ascending stairs
see url (:http://www.scientificpsychic.com/graphics/) for more.
Reality to me is like if you jump from 30 storeys without any bungeeline or parachute, there is a high probability your bodyform could be transformed into a mashy mush. Whilst God can “save” one from such fate, there has not been any documented reports He has done so.
Reality is “matter” with mass which in turn made of atoms, made from all the wonderful subatomic particles, weak forces and now black matter. Evidence for this would be modern technology and the useful devices that enrich our lives.
Presumed that(my concept) GOD has dominium over all of Nature as we perceive and know (maybe we only agree 99.99% of the time. I think the absurdity is when you cannot reconcile physical occurrences (assuming not a cognitive lapse) with Biblical teaching or at least the vast majority of them. To truly understand nature would be able to have an inkling of what this awesome God is all about – assuming the Copernicus positon of agreeing with his paymaster(the Pope) and the threat of excommunication and social ostracism is to my mind Godly – we should not be accepting fallacious beliefs on the basis of longevity
If by acceptance you mean we sud not be looking for a cure for cancer or HIV and it is really God’s will for us, I would reject that.
Errata correction – was
Not Copernicus but Galileo
Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point. He was tried by the Inquisition, found “vehemently suspect of heresy”, forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest.
Sorry my terminology for “argument” is actually equivalent to “discussion”. What I meant was I wasn’t sure if we are discussing about the same things since I didn’t really understand your reply.
Anyway, for the scientifically minded, Chuck Missler’s website at:
Has some very interesting technical articles that speculate about the true nature of reality and all that. You might find it interesting too.
Tku for URL ref – interesting but popular science – IMO science today has 2 camps – “standard model” (99.99%)guys and those who think outside this box. Most of these guys r not household names – some examples Galileo (heliocentric) – the Pope n whole Catholic church believed Earth was center of known universe – problems with calendar, seasons and clock. Newton – discovery and prediction of gravity – note we have not managed to measure or “see” but guess everybody agrees it exist. Consequence if u jump from 20 storey building, end result is predictable – adds to standard model within defined conditions of atmospheric pressure, temperature. Einstein famous for relativity ( which is still to be proven though some recent observations of planetary eclipse has validated predictive calculations using his equations)
Actually his biggest contribution wud be his work on “theory of everything” – currently, because we cannot have singularity, we hv a discrete universe – a law for atomic and subatomic universe and a separate law for the macro and planetary universe(space-time). These two views seem like parallel lines, and doomed never to meet to all infinity n eternity. Bioscience straddles these views, hence Strondinger problem and the current hunt for the GOD particle – this is the most basic indivisible component that makes up our known universe – from smallest biomolecules to the most star n planet.
To me our current model of our GOD is similar – limited correlation between teaching with physical actuality. hence the search and journey as I believe my God has dominium over all matter. Substituting knowledge with heresay and accepting anecdotal coincidences as divine confirmation to my thinking is dangerous – like listening to snake oil peddlers in law, finance, medicine – anywhere where money can be made, these people exist. Maybe attend the same churches with us.
Hope this clarifies the standard model I am attempting to better my God with – truth, knowledge is the basic building block of my faith – my prayers are for discernment, appropriate n timely deployment of His gifts to me so that those I interact with can be blessed more
Jesus explained the human condition in A-E below. Please choose the one that describes you best.
10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.
A) But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and EVER HEARING but NEVER UNDERSTANDING;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’
13Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14The farmer sows the word.
B) 15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.
C) 16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
D) 18 Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful.
E) 20 Others, like seed sown on good soil, HEAR the word, ACCEPT it, and PRODUCE a crop—thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown.”
Only in situation E are we saved. All other arguments are a waste of time, Journeyman.
Go to this add to see how sophisticated and updated the Bible is whilst science play catch up…
Also, to listen to for morning star that sings (Job 38:7) go here
Thank u yr verses – u r right the secret has been given. As to understanding, not so sure. From a farmer/pheasant perspective – if u hv good soil, seeds and good weather (optimum rain, sun and temperature), there will be a bountiful harvest. In more contemporary time if u cud control the environs, genetically engineer the seeds you cud get yields 3-5 times more, maybe 4-6 times per year compared to the traditional single crop season. Which is the better understanding?
The parables also cud be interpreted ” metaphorically,” and there will be another coloration.
Overlay on top of the other and there will be different granularity.
Offer this as an appropriate teaching or pointer to the right person in a particular situation, then it wud be breath of life or reverse it cud be faith destroying. Guess wisdom comes from God when one is aware of the prevailing situation, context and need of the receiver. The speaker of the word sud hv EQ, knowledge and God (un/common) sense. Have seen so many Xtian based counseling sessions that made a bad situation worse, destroying faith in the process. The counselors comeback when things go south is….their faith was weak, there is a curse or the house is built on unholy ground – must it is always the receivers fault? Or we really do not know God well or we just try to appear more anointed using rituals and baseless beliefs that contradict Nature and good science.
These verses don’t need interpretation. This is an ‘explanation’ of the parables by Jesus to His own disciples.
The untranslated version is Mark 4:3-8
This is not a faith killer, this is an encouragement.
Only if you can ACCEPT the word Of God for what it is then can you be any good as a Christian. If you’re always questioning the Word of God, you’ll get nowhere in your walk.
Example: Just like if you have an irritating wife, always asking you ‘do you love me?’ ‘really, you love me?’ ‘are you sure, can you prove it?’ ‘I don’t know, I can’t believe it until you show me’. After the first few times of assuring her of your love and faithfulness, you’d rather go sit on the roof by yourself, right? How are you going to have kids? She’s so unstable..
Same with God, He will give you some time to move from A-E and produce fruit 30, 60 and then 100. But if you cannot even passed the A and the B, how are you gonna produce anything? Be it miracles, kingdom work, Holy Spirit gifting etc.
The ‘wife’ example is just metaphorically speakinglah, sorry. If your wife is like that, the Bible also provides a solution.
1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
Most scientist believe faith in God and science are not mutually exclusive nor incompatible – however bad science and religious untruths are great bedfellows used to exploit extremely vulnerable people. Have no problems with pele going to casinos even though it holds no allure for me though I do dabble in financial markets (my charismatic friends do not condone this) – guess if u need to justify then there is no sin? When one makes long bets of 1-5 years and one can rationalize that it is “an investment” as opposed to speculation – substitute fancy new terms like trading alpha or beta and objection goes away. Fact everybody except clueless sheep is the financial markets to make mor money.
BTW pls don’t be impressed by “stars sing” – look at the process – spectral emissions recorded, digitized and converted to audio spectrum – somebody had wrote the algo for interfernce filters and interface converters to make the “song” audible through many idiosyncratic assumptions, compromises and personal coding quirks.It is a highly processed signal
A lot people believe in incongruous signs – check this out: Mother Mary appears in Subang Jaya Hospital
Guess my faith is unlike theirs – is it like yours?
One has its roots in God’s word, the other in Mother Mary, that’s the difference…
The foundations of my life is based on Proverbs(1-3) and my journey is Eccelestias and the fruit is about having a working standard model( that delievers abundant life promised) based on truth ( as far as it can be cognitively perceived and through a published crowd sourced rationality. It has been a very rewarding and interesting journey thus far. Writing to Blogpastor is my attempt to share personal experiences despite a paucity of talent in writing. Please forgive the misspelling and missing words but one of my reasonable authority on optical illusions tell me, it wud not detract from ability to communicate ideas behind the text.
For those interested in a primer on optical illusions and cognitive lapses – c this TED talk video
Hope these experiences will enable those that have the same inclination to seek and hv a most abundant life
The Prince Prayer
May GOD prosper you so you can prosper others……huat ah
You mention that your journey is based on Ecclesiastes, which is likely a record of the life experience of King Solomon – a man who probably had the means to satisfy his every whim.
But Ecclesiastes also has a conclusion that we can read for ourselves. So don’t you think it’s redundant to go through the roughly the same experiences that Solomon went through and come to the exact same realization in the end? Why not just read the conclusion and find the answer to the end of your journey now, if you claim that your journey is like Eccesiastes?
Do not think the conclusion is relevant coared to the journey.
Hopefully in 2000 years there has been very significant advances in technology, capability, knowledge and paradigms to Solomon’s era. There will be no shared experiences between richest, wisest Ruler-King of the ancient world and a 21st century man living in a modern City- state with free economy and universal suffrage. The journeys would be like chalk n cheese.
Using the same logic, is there any point in even having a journey since each of us already know the destination?
IMO the journey is the greatest gift, final destination is fixed, ultimate destination for eternity is promised but have provable evidence but will be a bonus if it does happen – content to believe it will happen but I have no proof that it is so.
Is there really that much of a difference in the condition of man in ancient times compared to modern day?
Sure, we have every modern convenience that Solomon can only dream of, but then even with all this technology, all the age-old problems still persist.
There’s still poverty. There’s still wars and famines and genocide. There’s still disease (and new ones). There’s still murders and theft and rape. There’s still greed.
Evil still happens because man is still the same old fallen spiritual being living in the same fallen world.
So outside the veneer of technology (which you can actually substitute with “power”) and the trappings of modern society, the life experience of Solomon in ancient Israel and a modern man in Tokyo is really not so different because life is fundamentally still the same journey for true meaning and happiness.
So when the writer in Ecclesiastes laid it out for us when he said that it’s futile to think that the material world can give true fulfillment, I really don’t think he was being only relevant to those in his era.
By the way, I don’t agree that the “ultimate destination” is eternity or the afterlife. But I suppose that is another discussion we can have when we next meet up :).
Nothing has changed ( human emotional instincts) and everything has changed (science, technology, economics, politics, religion and society etc). Sad when knowledge does not advance wisdom, hence human potential.
Guess am impatient and fed up with mysticism when we already have the means to effect radical changes in our mental and physical environs. Still we wait for more gifts from a God who has already endowed innovation into our DNA – believe that miracles can be had
When people die, you say no such thing as supernatural healing.
When people get healed supernaturally, you say DNA.
How to win like that?
Why then Bible used all this words faith, hope, believe only etc. maybe you’re smarter than God.. I’m also impatient, fed up and confused…
Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year…
Don’t you think that given our 2000 years of history, a reasonable extrapolation is that the world will tend towards destruction rather than improve? We can assume all we like that technology and more knowledge and human wisdom etc etc will save humanity, but I think it’s simply more reasonable to compare history to predict trends.
If this is a spiritual problem at it’s root then I suppose our helplessness to improve the human condition on our own might be a symptom of mankind’s fallen spiritual state.
I think we must also understand that anything “spiritual” implies a sense of “permanence and timelessness”, therefore if we are spiritually corrupt then we are also “permanently” corrupt, and we can do nothing within this material universe (which is itself subject to the spiritual reality) to change our fundamentally flawed nature and neither will it improve on its own. Therefore, I don’t think we should look to humanity to fix its problems anytime soon.
Sometimes I wonder if the physical “law of increasing entropy” that says everything tends towards a state of disorder is really a manifestation of the world’s fallen spiritual state (that was triggered by mankind’s own fall at the beginning, since the world was under our dominion). After all, why doesn’t the world have a “law of everlasting order”? But instead, we are left with an inherent physical law that says that everything will tend to break down…
But thank God that He is around to fix things!
Really?! So many books in the Bible, only based life on 1 and one tenth of a book? No wonder so much wisdom 🙂
No need to be dismissive or sarcastic – not everybody has been so bountifully blessed or privilaged.
Tot ( maybe stupidly) followers of JC wud obey his 2
commandments – love yr God and yr Neighbour – if this cannot be done, what value is there to quote chapter and verse? Or tell inspiring stories? 😉
A man had back pain for 3 years. He saw medical professionals for 3 years. They could do nothing. One day he meets a group of Christians. They pray for him. He looks amazed. The pain is gone. He brings his friend who was nearby to be prayed for back pain too. His friend is healed too. He then learns more about Jesus. And what Jesus did for him. He becomes a believer. He goes back to his wife and daughter in his native land. His daughter cannot walk because of a bad accident. He prays for her in Jesus’ Name. She starts walking again. Life has changed for this man in many other ways. He knows he is not only not alone, he has Jesus walking with him.
This is a true story. This is a true story of a true God.
We can discuss all day, but wouldn’t it be better to experience Him personally? 🙂
Yes and amen
In a majority of cases this miraculous and spontaneous healing does not take place – otherwise we will have no need for medical facilities or use for doctors.
Remember attending a 3-4 overflowing healing Services at Indoor Stadium and at COOS – witnessed Hundreds answering alter call. – rationally why wud anybody not want to be healed or in the case of Dr Richard Teo cured of cancer?
Hv seen more negatives and some positives. Had a friend who was walking after healing prayer wo pain (multiple leg fracture from car accident) – did a MRI and X-ray following Monday – there was no healing in the xray images. After witnessing faith healers like TB Josua, Kobus van Rensberg, Benny Hinze close up, I left the charismatic church – wud have become agnostic if not for Grace and timely intercession by a personal Savior.
Truth sud be universal and anecdotal – do not think God favors anybody more than the other except talents and skillsets are wholly subjective. Superstitions, anxiety and cultish rituals were the main reason In my seeking journey – starting to find clarity, knowledge, hope and love – (faith being refined) while seeking the ultimate truth – believe God will be there at the end and the whole journey would make sense in a personal finality.
Apologies for long discourse –
A thought just crossed my mind – since many Xtians believe in calling of being evangelical missionaries, was wondering if any individual, group or church attempted to bring the miraculous healing ministry to the wife’s and ailing former leaders of our country – since there not been any proclamation, wud it be safe to consider in the negative –
1. Nobody tried – then why not as these are great opportunities when there is a REAL need
2. They tried and failed
3. Their offers were refused for whatever reason
4. The “intermediaries” were flawed or unauthorized
Sure these 4 does not cover all possibilities but enough to make the point that miracles are very rare. Other the other hand, natural are more common and especially weather typhoons n cyclones seem to be increasing year by year – why is this. Revelationists wud proclaim the end is near. Me? Just a evolution of a relationship between a species that has learned to exploit and thrive beyond natural sustainability – maybe God built genes that ultimately restore equilibrium.
A biological scenario – most of us cannot tolerate a high caloric lifestyle – we get diabetes – historically it has been increasing yearly – so we hv grossly obese people who literally cannot feed themselves – we either run out of food or these guys die off after short existence – we continue to intervene with medical advances – guess u r all smart enough to project scenario. Will prayers and healing help – as a risk assigner – It is an extremely remote ( not absolute because if God will it everything can be changed.
My hope is that people if Faith are also rational and really great people to have as neughbours.
My brother and I separated when we were children. I was taken care of by my nanny and he remains with the family. Years later, he went to study in Australia. My brother worked and studied at the same time. He was heavy into the teaching of Buddhism and contemplated becoming a Buddhist monk. At one point he was so stressed with everything that he started to over consume some sort of tonic drink. All of a sudden, one day, he stopped talking. There was no voice coming out from his throat when he tried (to speak)
He went back home to the family and stayed in the room for 13 years. His inability to talk puzzled everyone. The family took him to all sorts of doctors, bomohs (traditional) and all that.
One doctor (modern) took a wooden stick and swiveled at his throat and he had no gag-reflex whatsoever. They were all quite puzzled and diagnosed that his nervous system was all messed up. They gave him tranquilizers and prozac (and the like) which did nothing for him.
He was terribly frustrated and was trapped in his little room, playing with the computer and had to write down all that he wanted to say.
I visited the family one day (after the 13th year of him being unable to speak). Having spoken to everyone, the (my) mother said to me ‘there’s another brother but he remains in the room because he can’t talk” I asked why and they told me. They gave me his e-mail address and ask me to write to him (I live in another city). We are only one year apart.
I started to write to him about Lord Jesus, telling him to invite the Lord to come into his heart to heal him. My brother who was at this point terribly desperate followed everything I asked him to do.
In 3 years I went back once and laid hands on him in prayer. He started to whisper at first and then started talking properly. He is now a kindergarten teacher and praying for a wife.
Thanks for this personal sharing. It’s inspiring.
Thank you blogpastor.
What is more inspiring is that whilst I brought my adopted family to the Lord on the one hand, now, through my brother, my biological family has come to know the Lord as well. It makes all my earlier sufferings worthwhile.. 🙂
It’s all because I believed…
My friend (a non-Christian) lady has a then 9 year old autistic son. The boy had very little speech. A yes or no answer. She had told me that when they travelled in the car she almost always forget that he is sitting in the back seat.
I met her at my child’s school. Being outside of the States (where she’s from) and in a city where treatment and programs for special needs children are seriously lacking, she had to resort to one shadow teacher for her son at school. Speech therapy was not great because they were in short supply and the available ones are not really well trained for autism.
After months of knowing her and hearing all the troubles she was having with her son, I was led to urge her to pray. I told her about Lord Jesus and to call upon the Lord. In her desperation she held her son every night and asked God to heal her son.
A mere 3 months later, the boy started to talk! Her complaint now is that he started to talk so much that she finds it hard to keep him quiet! His speech is becoming increasingly ‘functional’ (I’m not too sure what’s the correct term).
This boy is now a teenager and is arguing with her about most of her decisions for him. She was so used to controlling him that now she finds it hard to ‘deal’ with him. I told her that this is the downside of having ‘normal’ kid 🙂
My underatanding is supernatural means the known and accepted laws are suspended and there is a unexplainable (standard model) result. Sort of “magic” that does not exploit cognitive lapses. Mysticism wud be convincing when medical science and technology is not used in the process – document 20 cases like this and we can scientifically proclaim it was the hand of God only
Disingenuous mixing of faith and modern technology allows quake faith healors to dupe desperate people and that grates against my belief and the God I worship.
For people professing faith whilst using modern medical technologies and science, I am empathetic and do not have any issues with – probably the way I wud react – it is only when money and grateful donations become part of the solution, my “crap” processor kicks in. I accept miracles have happened in your journey because I have no reason to doubt yr integrity and there seems no vested interest beyond spreading the good news
Journeyman, I agree with u, somewhat.
I think the Pentecostals/Charismatics tend to see God as Santa Claus or a Diety who can be manipulated or controlled to deliver “miraculous gifts” n prosperity(eg Word Faith movement, Prosperity Gospel).
……..Most of their theology is based on their “spiritual” experiences n seldom on the established Word of God, even when such experiences contradict the Word of God.
To most of them, miracles from God equal salvation. But the Bible says that Jesus Christ died on the Cross all alone, except for John n a few others, ie nearly all the apostles/disciples fled n abandoned Him, even though they had witnessed JC performing thousands of miracles for more than 3 years. Peter famously denied Jesus 3 times after His arrest.
….So, witnessing miracles does not equal faith. If miracles is equal to faith, then calamities(sickness) will be equal to non-faith or disbelief.
….HEB.2:4 & 1:1 says that the Pentecostal miracles of the HS was God bearing witness to the salvation message of JC and His messengers/prophets. It may be a grave mistake to desire to recapture those miraculous times of Moses or JC. Be careful what u wish for.
….True faith is based on the immovable, unchanging n eternal Word of God n not no miracles.(MATT.7:24-29, LUKE.16:31)
Jesus Christ has commanded His sheep to wisely judge prophets/pastors by their fruits(of the Spirit – MATT.7:13-23) and by their confessions or teachings(1JOHN.4:1-6). Ie, by what they do n what they say.
Normally, the abundant life has been promised by God to His people who keep the moral laws/Word of God. But, there r exceptions to every rule.
….Example: like how JC commanded His law-abiding apostles to submit to religious persecution n martyrdom.
I doubt the Pentecostals/Charismatics will obey such a command from JC bc they hv been so used to a loving n pliable Diety who often bestows miraculous gifts n prosperity to them. It will be very difficult for them to believe that God would want them to suffer n die for their faith.
….In fact, most of them ‘wrongly’ believe in the opposite, ie God wants them to “conquer” the world thru the “wonderful miracles” of God. Eg, Ps Kong Hee’s Cultural Mandate, International House of Prayer’s Seven Mountains Mandate n Mega-Churches-trend.
A time is coming soon when God will require His people to suffer n die for their faith, ie for refusing to accept the mark-of-the-beast, as prophesied by JC at REV.13:11-18. Those who will not keep the faith n receive the mark-of-the-beast will lose their salvation. This will be happening just prior to the 2nd Advent of JC back to earth.
….The Word of JC will again resonate, …”whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.”(MARK.8:35)
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P S – The magicians of the Egyptian Pharaoh were able to duplicate the miracles of Moses.(EXO.7:14-8:19)
2THESS.2:9 = The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs n lying wonders.
PROV.28:9 = One who turns away his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer shall be an abomination.
Correction n addition:
“True faith is based on the immovable, unchanging n eternal Word of God n not ON miracles.”(MATT.7:24-29, LUKE.16:31,… ROM.10:17, EPH.6:16-17, HEB.4:11-13, 2TIM.3:14-17, 2PET.1:18-21, GAL.5:22, HEB.12:2)
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The sick n disabled beggar, Lazarus(LUKE.16:20), did not need any miracle-healing, in order to go to heaven. As a Jew, he only needed to obey Moses Law(=the written Word of God) and hear the preaching/Word of Jesus Christ.
JOHN.20:29-31 = Jesus said to him, “Thomas, bc u hv seen Me, u hv believed. Blessed r those who hv not seen n yet hv believed.”
….And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which r not written in this book; but these r written that u may believe that Jesus is the Christ(the Jews’ promised Messiah), the Son of God, n that believing u may hv life in His name.
Interesting perpective from a bible scholar published by Bible.ord………”But when the canon of Scripture is made “perfect” (or complete), there will be no further revelation from God, neither in predictive prophecy nor in divinely revealed knowledge other than prophecy. The gifts of “prophecy” and “knowledge” will be entirely unnecessary with the completion of the Scriptures. And “if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book” (Revelation 22:18).”……….seems like a rational interpretaion to me what do u think
Bon voyage……. ( :
John 14:12: I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.
And if I were you, I’ll consider a name change too, you know.. What do you mean ‘Non-Pentecostal’?
This is very disrespectful to the Holy Spirit. This day of Pentecost marked The Holy Spirit take over after Lord Jesus had left His disciples.
Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues a as the Spirit enabled them.
Whenever I have a gathering in the Lord’s name, I confess this verses till I turn blue. I have never failed to see miracles after miracles and people coming to the Lord.
Keep in mind what the Lord says about sinning against the Holy Spirit and grieving the Holy Spirit, yah. God bless you..
Lehman Strauss (2004) came to this conclusion on his scholarly discourse on gifts……..
” God does have a plan in His dealings with the human race, and that plan does not necessarily include the continuing repetition of the same miracles in every succeeding century. The miracles of God are rare occurrences in history. Enoch’s bodily translation from earth to heaven was the only recorded miracle performed by God in over 1700 years between Adam and the flood.
The Church of Christ does not need a new Bible, nor new apostles, nor new faith-healers, nor new charismatic movements, nor self-styled miracle workers. What the Church needs is to return to the Word of God and proclaim the whole counsel of God in the power and love of the Holy Spirit.
And if my reader has never had a personal experience of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, I urge you to receive Him at once, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:13).”
…….does anybody have another perspective??